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Crevices Can Become Canyons
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Expression Literary and Arts Magazine, CCA 04.ii.c.2022.01 WyCaC US. Casper College Archives and Special Collections.
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A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included.
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A Few of My Favorite Things
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Text
MEMOIRS
Dorothy Marie Dolph
My birthplace:
Baraboo, Wisconsin, November 11, 1884
We lived on a farm four miles from town. The first memory I have was
when I was three years old. The farmers every year would have a get together at
a picnic. They had a program and asked my mother to have me speak a piece. She
had taught me a poem, of which I remember only the following: "I don’t get my
living gnawing a bone." As I was so small, they stood me on a table and that made
me very frightened, but I managed to get through with it. I guess
it had a lasting
effect though, as I would never speak another piece, I did afterwards take part in
school debates, which I liked to do, but they could never get me to speak a piece.
'*
My mother had been a teacher and she taught me at home. There was a country
school across the road, which I attended some of the time, but not often, as I had a
bad habit of fainting. The children there at recess and the noon hour played such
active games which I liked too much not to play with them, and when the bell rang
and I returned to my seat, I would faint. There was a big boy in school who would
then carry me home. His name was Herman and carrying me home each day became known
as "Herman’s job." So mother did not let me attend school often, but taught me at
home.
When I was five years old, we moved to Baraboo for the winter months, after
the harvest. When we entered the room, the teacher told us to pick our seats. In
those days each seat held two children. I looked all about and picked the seat
where the prettiest girl was sitting. I did not know that there were two grades in
the school, and the side of the room I had picked was the first grade and I belonged
.
in the second grade. Just a little country girl, I was too bashful to tell the
■-■^8
teacher of my mistake, and when she asked me a question I did not answer. After a
few days she called my mother and asked if I were deaf. Mother told her of the
mistake and after the teacher seated me where I belonged, everything was okay, but » .
I was always afraid of that teacher and never liked her. After this year I did not
attend school again except for one term in the fourth grade, but was taught at home
for several years.
When I was nine years old we moved to Madison, Wisconsin, so that my
oldest sister could attend the University. Mother entered me in the sixth grade
there, but they soon promoted me to the seventh grade. However, mother made them
put me back in the sixth grade as she did not want me to overdo. I liked this
school and my teacher very much. There was one thing though that bothered me.
On the farm, I had had no playmates but boys. I had never let any boy do anything
I couldn’t do. I was the champion tree climber and was proud of my ability to keep
up with them and I had been treated as one of them. But here in the city, they
treated me as a girl. They tried to kiss me and that angered me. I would fight
with them and of course that made them more anxious to tease me. But at the time
I didn’t realize that, so I soon learned to hate those city boys.
Everything was so different here and quite interesting to a country girl.
My sister at the University took me as a spectator to a dance. I sat with the
other guests in the balcony. It was a spectacular dance. The dancers all wore
masks, but the masks were on the back of the heads. The hair covered the faces
so it appeared as though they were all dancing backwards. It was a bit unusual
and I have never seen it done since.
�In those days, toys were scarce and consequently more appreciated. '
Mine consisted of a ball and jacks and a jump rope. I did have dolls as mother
felt that little girls must like dolls, but I didn't. So one day when mother was
away, I gathered them all up, took them to a poor section of town and c^ave them
all to the poor children. That was the last of my dolls1
I did love to fish and spent all the time I could doing it. My
shing
tackle consisted of a branch from a tree for a pole and a bent pin. The only fishing
place I had was Lake Mendota. One day while prowling about, I found an old boat, a
large one, so I went aboard to investigate. Suddenly, the floor gave way beneath met
Luckily, when I fell through into the water, I threw out my arms and with caution I
was able to extricate myself. Frightened, I returned home. It was a long unT if and
I was tired. I got into a hammock in the back yard where I soon fell asleep. When
night came mother was very worried, not knowing that I had returned. She called
the police and they searched for me. At 10 o'clock my bother discovered me in the
hammock.
My mother was very soft-hearted. When hobos would come to the door asking
for food, she always fed them. There were many who came, too. One day my brother
was passing a tank near the railroad tracks, which was but two blocks away, when he
discovered a number of addresses written on it. Among them was our address. • Heerased our address and told mother, after which no more hobos were given food.
The schools required smallpox vaccination. The doctor was not able to get
any reaction from vaccinating me, so I had to get a special permit in order to keep
on in school. I have always been immune^ to communicable diseases or else get them
only lightly. My brother contracted measles and was very sick, so mother sent me
back home in Baraboo to stay with father on the farm. I did get them though and
father called mother. She arrived but couldn't find me for some time. At last she
discovered me in the barn, jumping from a rafter into the haymow. She insisted I go
to bed and she sat by the window reading a book. When she discovered me sitting,up
drawing a picture of her, she let me get up as she did not want me to try my eyes.
Mother spent part of the time in Madison and part of it on the farm. She '
left my oldest sister in charge of us in Madison. I would get homesick and bum a
ride on a freight train to Baraboo and then walk the five miles home. One time I
arrived at the freight yards at midnight. There was no moon and it was very dark.
I arrived at home at two o'clock in the morning. It did worry mother, but I stm
continued to bum rides. Sometimes I rode in the caboose, and sometimes in the cab
with the engineer.
We lived in Madison that one year and then returned to Baraboo. The school
there was different and the seventh grade there was about the same as the sixth
grade in Madison. Within a short time they promoted me to the eighth grade. When
the principal found out that I was but 10 years old, he insisted I go back to the
seventh grade. I greatly resented this and am afraid I made myself obnoxious from
that time on. I spent most of my time doing all the mischief I could think of.
The boy who sat in front of me I especially disliked. He had an elongated head
which was flat on top. I called him Punqjkin Head, as his head resembled a pumpkin
in shape. He called me Turkey Egg, as I had freckles. I would pull his hair or
put things down his neck, and he would haul off and hit me when the teacher was not
looking. All through school, I was fighting with boys and refused to have anything
to do with them.
�The next year in the eighth grade, a boy I especially disliked sat behind
me. I had long hair which was kept in two braids. He would tie those braids to the
legs of the desk, so when I tried to get up to recite, I couldn’t. I never tattled,
so the teacher thought I just refused to get up, and I had many black marks. To
retailiate, I would haul off and hit him in the face. Sometimes I would get caught
at it, and so had more black marks. There was a boy in the front who was always
looking back and it bothered me. I never knew who he was looking at as he was
cross-eyed, until he tried dating me. Later, he had his eyes straightened and he
was a fine looking chap.
The next year I entered High School. We did not move to town until the
crops were harvested. In those days there were no cars or busses, so I had to walk
five miles each way. The roads in places were deep sand, making walking difficult.
There was one steep hill, called Haynes Hill after the man who lived there. All the ■ >
rest of the way was downhill. When we moved to town, we had but a mile to walk to
school. Just beyond me one of my schoolmates lived. One morning when the
k
was very slippery with ice, he called out to me, "Wait and I’ll pick you up," which
was a common way in those days of saying, "I’ll walk with you." Just then he slipped
and fell. I turned and said, "Better pick yourself up," and then walked on. I still
did not like boys.
I liked High School and took two extra solids all through it. I especially
liked algebra. In the second year, I ran a race with another girl to get the highest
standing. One night I couldn’t seem to work out a problem. Mother offered to help,
but I felt that if I took her help and didn’t work it out by rayself that I might
forget it. So I worked on it until finally succeeding at two o’clock a.ra. At the
end of the year, we tied, both receiving the standing of 100. In botany, we made a
deal. I did her drawings and she did the writing for me. To make sure the teachers
wouldn’t know, I shaded my drawings. At the end of the year, she came out the head
of the class, but I came out at the other end for I knew little of the writing part.
When I entered High School I was the smallest in school, but when I graduated
I was the fourth from the tallest in ray class. We played the usual pranks youngsters
do. One day I carried a snake up my sleeve and turned it loose. It created quite a
panic I I loved to play with snakes and tease my oldest brother with them for he just
did not like snakes.
I used to draw caricatures of the teachers on the blackboards until they
discovered who was doing it. One time I was sliding down the banister to al imi
steps and landed at the bottom in the arms of the principal. We had quite a lecture
that day in class about being ladies instead of tomboys.
One Halloween my brother and some friends managed to get a buggy on top of
the schoolhouse roof. There was quite a bit of competition between the seniors and
juniors. One time when I was a junior, the seniors put on a party and had ordered
ice cream for a certain date when they would call for it in person. Some of the
juniors went after it and said that the date had been changed and that they were
asked to get it. So we juniors had a party with the seniors' ice cream.
Summer was a busy time on a farm. As I had two older sisters and was
much younger, I was just in the way in the house. So I never did learn to cook.
I always liked the outdoors an3rway. When I was just a baby I used to ride in a box
that my father made for me with him on his cultivator. I was always one of the first
up in the morning and practically lived outdoors. I had a large flower garden and
mowed the lawn, which was a large one. My father raised strawberries and raspberries.
�which I helped pick. He raised so many that he had to hire many pickers. Once
when I was 11 years old, I wanted to visit my sister who was camping with her
class at Devils Lake. Mother didn’t want me to go, so she said if I picked 100
boxes of strawberries before I left, I might go. She was certain I could never do
it. I was out in the patch before daylight. We had carriers that held eight
quart boxes, since in those days they sold in quart boxes. I managed to get 100
boxes picked. Furthermore, I was not like my brother who one time turned the boxes
over and filled only the small place in the bottom of the boxes. I had to walk
five miles to the train, though I ended up running most of the way to get there on
time. I barely made it!
Devils Lake was beautiful then. The area was wild and uncluttered with
dwellings as it later became. My high school class camped there one year for a
week and it was a fun week! We stayed in a two-room dwelling. The boys were in one
room and the girls in the other. One day when we girls were all gone, the boys put
pepper in our pillows. As the walls were thin, I imagine the boys got a bang out of
oxjr sneezing. After that it was a game as to which group could play the greatest
prank. One night we had a dance and to choose partners the girls stood behind a
curtain that was high enough to show only their shoes. Then the boys clamped their
names on the shoes. I had a new pair of patent leather shoes and many pounced on
them, but of course the first one won. As it turned out, he was the shortest boy in
the class and hero I was one of the tallest girls. . The tallest boy who was over
six feet pasted his sticker on the shortest girl, so we exchanged partners.
After graduating from High School, I planned on teaching but there was
a law that one could not teach before 1? years of age. However, I took the examination
and put down 1?. My trouble started when I applied in person. One member of the
board looked at me and said, "You look like you should be in kindergarten and not
teaching." So I started to write in for a position, and by so doing I managed to
get a job.
As a teacher, I was rather worried as two of the boys and one girl were
older than me. Then they tested me. Several youngsters threw spitballs and were
sure I didn’t see them. I didn’t say a word until recess when I named the culprits
and told them to stay put. I kept them in at noon and afternoon recess and made
them throw spitballs. Then after school I made them stay and pick them up. I
didn’t see any more spitballs after that day.
One of the big boys talked back to me one day and so I told him to stay
after school. When school was out he started to go with the others. I met him and
grabbed one of his ears and led him back to his seat. I doubted that he would go,
as he was bigger than I, but he did. I heard him say later to some of the boys,'
"My but she has power in that left hand of hers," From that day on I had perfect
order and no more trouble. I felt it was due to this until later I learned that
the older girl in school had taken this boy behind the schoolhouse and beaten him
up badly and said to them all, "If I hear of one of you doing anything in school
you shouldn’t, I will do the same to you." This girl and I became very good friends.
The schoolhouse was two miles from where I boarded, and the Wisconsin
winters are quite severe. The lady where I boarded each morning baked two potatoes
for me to carry. They kept my hands from freezing on the way to school and also
served as my lunch.
In those days it was customary for teachers to visit parents of the
students and spend the night. I told my friend I was going to do this with a certain
family. She said that I couldn’t but gave no reason why no, so I went anyway.
There were seven children in the family I found out and the family lived in a one-room
house. At bedtime the children rolled up in blankets and laid down along the.wall.
�As the room was not large, there was no vacant space left.
friend came for me and I went back with her.
About that time my
The nearest dentist was 14 miles away and my wisdom teeth began to bother
me, so I started for town. I walked about 10 miles when some people in a wagon came
along and offered me a ride
Of course, I was glad. When we were near the town
they stopped and asked if I wanted to get off
I thought it funny and asked why.
They said that they used to give rides to a teacher in a nearby district and he
always got off there as he didn’t want to be seen riding to town in a wagon
Wages in those days were rather small. I received $25 a month during my
first years of school, but still saved money as board and room was but $2 a week.
I saved enough so that the next year I attended the University of Minnesota. I
chose this University as it had an art course in the engineering department, and
also my sister was teaching there. We roomed together and boarded at a nearby
restaurant. This restaurant had two rooms. In one they served American plan and
in the other, European. In the American side, one could get all they wanted to eat
for 10 cents. It was served on a long table and passed along. When one wanted a
second helping all he had to do was to ask to have it passed. The European plan was
much more expensive and the customers were served individually.
Our art classes were from two to four in the afternoon, but I worked as
long as it was light enough to see, as I was especially interested in art. My
other classes were from 8 a.m. to 12:30 p.ra. I specialized in German. Wisconsin
was well-populated with Germans and I had spent much time with them; some of whom
could speak only German. I should have specialized in Spanish as later on I was to
be among Spanish speaking people. My sister spoke Spanish fluently and later spent
16 years in South America. While teaching in Minneapolis she met a man studying law
She wanted him to study for the ministry and so he did. They were married and went
to Colombia, South America, as missionaries.
She taught in a boys* school and he
accepted the position as minister there. Her first son was born there. He has
spent many years in government service in various parts of the world. In World War
II he served in the FBI as an interpreter being a fluent speaker in seven languages.
At the university our French class started at 12:30 p.m. By that time
we were tired and hungry, at least I was, and I had a habit of going to sleep. I didn’t
care for the professor and he didn’t care for me. He had a long mustache and
continually lifted it with one hand up to his eye and that annoyed me. He always
He was always late for class. One day in
called on me when he caught me dozing
So I took
spring the day was so beautiful that we all wished we could be outside
advantage of his being late and went to the blackboard and in big letters printed,
"Fourth Hour French class excused today." When the students arrived and saw that,
they left. Three of us loitered in the hall and when he arrived and saw the writing
on the blackboard he turned to me and said, "Who did that? Do you know Miss Newell?"
(That was ray maiden name.) I said I couldn’t say, which wasn’t really a lie. At
the end of the semester he flunked about half the class, so many in fact that we
were allowed to take a special examination. All but three then passed and luckily
I passed. The next year he was not with us.
I loved to dance and felt bad if I did not get to go at least once a week.
One time we were given a book written in German to read and in our own words write
over in English. We had a week in which to complete it. I kept putting it off until
the last minute and then there was a dance I wanted to attend. I arrived home from
the dance at 2 a.m., skipped through the book enough to get a general idea of the
story and finished ray essay just in time to get to the eight o’clock class
�6
A month before the end of the first year, one of ray sisters and I left
for North Dakota to teach summer school. They hadn’t been able to get a teacher
in one district for over a year, It was considered a tough school. There were
a number of big boys who had taken the last teacher, a man, and thrown him out tne
door. Of course, we didn’t know that. The only house in six miles was just across
They asked us to
the road, so we planned to stay there but soon changed our minds,
rushed
outl
At
the dinner
dinner. Upon arrival as we opened the door two pigs
table they had a smelly dog underneath that they fed now and then.
We decided to board near the other school, but to do so I had to take
the tough school as my sister was lame and unable to ride the distance on her
bicycle. Our mode of transportation was bicycles, It was quite a task for me
as my school was to the east and if one has been on the North Dakota plains, you
win know that the wind travels with the sun. Thus in the morning the wind comes
from the east and in the afternoon from the west, so that I had to go against the
wind both ways. The wind there is strong. Sometimes it was so strong that I had
to walk and push the bicycle, and sometimes so extra strong that it was hard to do.
In extremely bad weather I drove a buggy. The horse I drove was not very gentle
and sometimes he would buck in the harness. He sometimes refused to face a bad
storm. The country was bleak with no protection as there were no hills, just flat
open country. It was easy to get lost with no fences or other landmarks.
I had an aunt who started out once on a lovely sunny day with three small
children. A blizzard came up suddenly and they were lost. The horses led them to
a haystack and they burrowed into it. But the cold was too much for theml They
were found after the storm frozen to death. The sad part was that they could have
been saved as they were but a few hundred feet from a house.
My sister tried to teach her students what a tree looked like. She
thought she had succeeded, when one of the pupils raised his hand and said very
excitedly, "Look teacher. Here comes a tree." It was a big tumbleweed blowing
across the prairie. I told ruy sister that she wasn’t a very good teacher.
When I started teaching school there, I was worried on account of its
reputation. The very first morning it happened. A group of boys outside on horses
rode about the schoolhouse yelling and whooping. After a while I stepped outside
and said, "Say, boys, have you an extra horse? I would like to join youl" They
looked a bit sheepish and rode off. From that time on it was the easiest school I
ever taught.
I would go to dances, and since those country dances would last all night
I sometimes went directly from the dance to the schoolhouse. Of course, I would be
sleepyl I would tell the youngsters to study their lessons and when they had them
to wake me up and I would hear them recite. They did just that and we got along
fine. It must have been satisfactory, as I was asked to continue teaching there.
However, I wanted to go back to the University. My sister and I did enjoy our
stay in North Dakota though. On weekends we went to Cathay, a little town two
miles from where we stayed. We hired a buggy and took trips. Often we were unable
to get a good horse, but were given the one that few people would hire as it was
a runaway horse. To use it we had to ride in a two—wheel cart, as a buggy was not
safe. The horse was not choosy as to the route he would take but head across
country over rocks and bwxjsh. It was hard to keep from bouncing out but it was fun I
Once we had to attend a teachers' convention in a town 17 miles away, so
we rode our bicycles. After the convention was over we started home. We were
facing one of those high winds and it was impossible to ride and also difficult
to push the bicycles. The road ran along side the railroad track. We had gone
about two miles when a freight train came along. The engineer stopped the train
and asked us if we wanted a ride. Of course we did. The brakeman loaded our
bicycles on a flat car and we climbed into the cab with the engineer.
�‘
We had gone about half way when I said to my sister, "Chlook, Margie
at the beautiful flowersl” The engineer said, "Would you like to pick some?"
I said, "SureI" So he stopped the train, and we got out and picked flowers.
The brakeman helped. It was an unforgettable experience and a bit unusual. ■
One night we went to a dance. I do not know how it started, but the
orchestra did not stop but played continuously. The dancers all dropped out
but my sister and I. I danced with three different men. When one would quit
another would take his place. My sister won though as I gave out first. Not ,,
long after this the marathon dances became the rage.
I didn’t get much inspiration in that country to paint. The scenery
was just flat. It was just like standing on a huge pancake that ended off in a
circular line. When I returned to the University, I had to take examinations for
the time I had missed and fortunately passed them. I enjoyed this year even
better than the one before. They had introduced a bowling alley in the basement
of our church and I liked to bowl. Madame Clopath, my art teacher, was an
unusually good bowler.
After the two years at the University, I decided to leave and go to
art school. To do so I had to renew my funds so the next two years I taught
school. To get to the first school I had to travel all day on a stagecoach.
Part of the time I rode with the driver. The stage was drawn by mui^s. At one
stage stop when the driver got off to deliver mail, he handed me the reins and a
very long stick with a nail in the end. He told me to use the stick if one of the
mules attempted to lie down—a habit he had. Sure enough he tried, but when I
jabbed him with the nail he desisted with a loud bray—the first time I had ever
heard a mule bray. As we neared the post office, all the mules started to bray.
I thought it an odd way to enter the town and not as dignified as a very proper
professor in the stage would wish.
In this school I had the first four grades, which included 65 students.
I liked the children and they were well-behaved. They tried me out one day by
turning loose a snake, but as I had played with snakes it didn't bother me. I
just picked it up and took it outside. No more snakes were brought into hqt room,
though the teacher across the hall had trouble with them. She was very much
afraid of them. One of my pupils, a little girl had just started school and came
very dirty and with a bad odor. I complained to the school board, whose members
investigated. They found her family living in a dug-out, keeping pigs and
chickens in with them. The school board made the family clean up the place, so
that the little girl could come back to school. She was an unusually intelligent
child and learned fast.
There was good fishing in this vicinity and I was lucky at fishing. The
principal for some reason never had any luck. Then one day he came back with quite
a string of fish. We thought his luck had changed until the little boy who sold him
the fish confessed.
There were many Indians near and one day while hiking with a friend we
were invited for dinner. They never would have asked us, but my friend was wellknown to them as she used to help them. It was the first and only time I had
dinner in an Indian tepee with the Indians. It was a large tent. Quite a number
of Indians sat in a circle around a large pot of stew. We sat down along side of
them. The stew was delicious. When I saw how hard up these Indians were and how
difficult it was for them to survive in some parts, I always tried in later years
wherever I went into Indian country to buy from them when I passed where they were
selling by the roadside. One time when I stopped to buy, a little girl about 10 or
11 years old asked me if I had any magazines she could have to read. Unfortunately,
I had none. It made me think of all the magazines that are thrown away when they
could be sent to these isolated Indians.
�In Wisconsin the winters are severe with deep snow and cold weather.
Nevertheless, some of us teachers liked to get out and hike in the winter. One
day while out in the woods we found an Indian lying out in the snow. We notified
the authorities and they rescued him. He had been drinking too much. This was
bad as his brother had been found frozen to death after he had drunk too much.
The town, though small, had two saloons and there was much drinking. The
justice of the peace was even a hard drinker. One time when there was a murder
trial pending, he had some papers that if found would condemn the murderer, so
those who wanted to help get him off kept the justice of peace drunk for a week.
Someone drew in chalk a picture of a pig on his back. This man had a large family
of seven children. One of them was a pupil of mine. He came to school sometimes
through the snow in below zero weather with no shoes, just gunny sacks wrapped
about his feet.
On May Day some of us teachers were putting baskets of flowers on doorsteps
and in the dark I accidentaly ran behind one of the saloons. What a sightl There
was a circle of drunk men, put out there after drinking too much.
The daughter of the hotel owner asked me to come and stay with her so I
did. Her uncle who ran it was quite strict, but her mother left one window unlocked
so that was our way of entrance when returning late. We had ice skating parties
and went tobogganing and did not always get back early
The following year I taught in Crandon in Northern Wisconsin. After we
left the train to get to Crandon we had to ride two hours through the dense woods
on a logging train. It was a real wilderness. Here I taught the seventh and
eighth grades. There were 5^ students and again I had two older than I. As
assistant principal, I took over when the principal was visiting other grades.
When I visited other grades he took over. This room had a bad reputation and
was quite difficult to handle. One day there was loud laughter. I looked up to
see the cause and there was a drawing of a funny face on the blackboard. I was • *
angry and said, "I wouldn’t laugh at anything as babyish as that I" The drswing was ’
on the board half way between a girl and a boy seated there. The,boy said, "I ain’t
no babyJ” Whenever I am extremely angry my face turns white, I cannot speak!. So
I just walked over and shook him hard and when he hung onto the desk the ink.
spilled out of his inkwell all over the desk, his books and the floor. This was
at the time there were always inkwells in the desks. I went back and sat down as
if nothing had happened. I learned later that he had not done the drawing but that
the girl had. When school was out he came to me and asked if I would go skating
with him that evening and I did. He was a big boy and a year older. He was the
postmaster’s son and his mother was Indian. From that time on school was easy and
the children very friendly. We used to take many hikes in the woods. The girl
who had done the drawing became my best friend.
There were many forest fires near and one finally came within a mile of
our town. If the wind had not changed, the town would txave been wiped out. School
was dismissed as it was impossible to see because of the smoke. For days the smoke
obscured the sun. Most of the mon in town were out fighting fire.
I boarded at the hotel when a lady came and asked me to come stay with
her as she was lonesome. She lived at the other end of town a mile from school
It was quite a walk in winter when it was 30Oor 40° below zero. I would run part
way and go into a store to warm up before starting out again.
There was a large lake near town with a shoreline of 100 miles. Ice
... . my _______
_
One night I had as a partner a tall six-foot lad;
skating was
favorite sport.
He had skates and I had hockeys. Although he was tall I took longer strides
f<5it#*
“^3
j
;
'
-
�It
In one stride he didn’t make it, his skate caught in mine and threw me
dislocated my kneecap and cracked the bone. My room in school was on the second
floor, so I had to quit teaching that grade, A teacher on the first floor who
taught second grade was getting married in a month, so she resigned and let me have
her grade. From this time on I had to depend on a taxi driver for transportation.
Two interesting boys were in this grade. They were twins and even their
mother could not tell them apart. One would study his lesson and then when I
called upon them for recitation when I wasn’t looking they would exchange seats
so that it was always the same boy who answered, though I thought I had called
on each of them. This way, only one had to prepare his lesson every other day.
I didn’t catchon for some time, until one day I saw them exchange places, I
asked them how one could tell them apart and one answered, "I have one more wart
on my hands.” Both had numerous warts on their hands, but he said this as if I
could stop to count theml Their parents owned the hotel. There was a porch in
front that was open underneath. Men used to sit on the floor of this porch with
their feet dangling. One day the twins took a rope and carefully tied their legs
together so when one man stepped down it spilled all the others off, too.
The teacher they hired in my place for seventh and eighth grades was not
popular. The children made it so hard for her that she left within; a month, I do
not know who they hired after that, as I found it too difficult to teach when I
couldn’t walk.
I resigned at Christmas time.and moved out to Hot Springs, South
Dakota. I hated to leave Crandon. There were 1? teachers there, and many of us
would take long hikes in the forests, The woods were beautiful in autumn. It was
a bit dangerous though, as there were many timber wolves. One night after school
on a lovely moonlight night, I took a walk alone. I walked about two miles and then
headed back. Suddenly, I saw a wolf, skulking along in the woods. I was frightened
but realized I was safe as long as he was alone. I hurried for fear another wolf
would join him, and luckily none did. However, he followed me all the way to the
After that, I didn’t take the chance of going out nights alone. I
edge of town
Many years later I re-visited it. Like all,.
liked the wildness of this country
other places it was completely changed, Instead of the only way there being by ’
logging train, there were well-paved roads. The wilderness of trees was replaced
with houses. Ihe lake which had been completely surrounded by trees was now
surrounded by houses.
The train went through sections
My trip to Hot Springs was interesting
where the snow covered the barns and telephone poles. Hot Springs is in very
beautiful country. I spent some of the happiest days of my life there. My uncle
Captain Palmer, had recommended the place to me. He and a Mr. Evans founded the
town. They had a railroad, a spur, built in. Uncle and Senator Martin spent two
years in Congress getting a bn 1, passed to build a soldiers’ sanitarium. Uncle
drew the plans for it where the separate buildings all face a circular patio,
making it easy to go from one building to another*. Uncle had been captain in the
Civil War, and at that time had the position of soldiers’ homes inspector. A
portrait of him hung in the raaai office. It was a large painting with an eight-inch
wide frame.
i
It “■
Soon after I arrived, I was invited to spend a week at Senator Martin’s
ranch. He had many horses, including a beautiful race horse.
I had never ridden
horse
a horse and was rather dubious about riding a race horse. It was the easiest
riding horse I ever rode, and since then I have ridden many. They had quite a
laugh at me though, as all I could think of was to grab the saddle horn and yell,
"Whoo, Whool" The next day there was a cattle drive, and, of course, I had to be
in it, I had never seen a cattle drive. We were going along fine when a steer •
¥
■A-.,.
�right in front of me decided to go in another direction. My horse was well-train^].;’
and whirled about after him. I almost flew off, but just managed to stay on.I
liked riding so much that I decided to buy a horse. So upon n^y return I bought
a two-year-old Indian pony.
She looked rather scraggly so I hired a man to clip
her. I first halter broke her, and then I rode her bareback before I tried the
saddle. She didn't offer to buck, but one day when mounting her I accidentally
hit her with the,picket pin and away she rant I couldn't stop herI I lived on
a dead end street with a fence at the end. I didn't know if she would jump or
turn sideways. She whirled sideways, but I managed to stay on by hanging onto her
mane.
My family came out for the summer after I was there a while. My sister
from South America brought a servant named Teresa, who was half Indian and half
Spanish,
horse took a dislike to Teresa and would chase her every time she
came near. Teresa would run with her hands high above her head, screaming Spanish
words.
My horse didn't like the saddle. I found out she could really buck and was
especially good at ’’sunfish bucking.” I taught her to pace, singlefoot and to dance.
She made quite a show in parades. One time a photographer asked me if I could make
her buck. He wanted to take a picture that he could sell to tourists. I told him I
could. On my way down to meet him I had to cross the railroad tracks, just then a,
train came and it scared the horse and she started to buck. I couldn't get her off
the tracks, so the train had to stop. Then when I tried later to make her buck for
the photographer, she wouldn't do itl I did get her to stand up and whirl and he got
a good picture of her standing on one foot.
Then I looked for a horse for my sister. Two cowboys brought in a fine
looking sorrel and I bought it. When I returned to the house I had a telephone call
from a rancher I knew, telling me not to buy that horse as it was an ’’outlaw,” but it
too late. I tried to make friends before I started to ride her, but that horse never
liked me, nor I herI She would not picket, so I had to rent a box stall. Every time
I entered the stall.to feed her she would push me hard against the wall or put her
foot out and step on my foot, I had a hard time getting on her when I finally
decided to try to ride her, Luckily, she did like my sister and never did buck with
her. When we left to go back to Wisconsin, we sold her to the Army. She reverted
back to being the ’’outlaw” and no one was ever able to ride her again. However,
they did train her to harness. Good saddle horses were hard to find. I had tried
out an albino in my search for a horse. I put it in a corral with a high fence but
it umped over the fence. I found him and took him back to the owner who lived 1?
miles away. I asked a friend to go with me. We had quite a time getting him back.
He wouldn't be led, so we had to drive him. He wanted to io anyway, but the way we *
wanted him to go. It took us most of the day to get the horse back.
My friend's father had a ranch near, so we decided to go spend the night
there. It was 10 miles away and we arrived after dark. Her father had been drinking
too much, and she said that we had better go on. He insisted we take back a cow and
a calf. The two were difficult to drive and in the dark with no landmarks we soon
lost our- sense of direction. My friend insisted on going one way, but I another, so
I said I would leave it up to the horse. My horse headed straight across the
prairie and home. We didn't arrive there until 5 o'clock in the morning. We
had been riding since seven o'clock the morning before.
We spent a wonderful summer in Hot Springs. We joined a club of horseback
riders and took many interesting rides. There were 35 members in the club,
took many long rides through the Black Hills. Then the time came to return
j
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to 'Wisconsin. I shipped my pony by train
In Baraboo I kept her in a barn.
She wouldn’t let anyone go near her but a cousin of mine, My father wouldn't
go in the same stall, and my brother wouldn’t go into the barn after she broke
loose one time and chased him out. When I turned her out to pasture, it was easy
to get her day or night. I just had to call, "Nig" and she would come a running
St
My sister and I often would ride on picnics. We would just take off
the bridles and turn the horses loose, Once when I fell asleep under a tree by
a school house and my sister sat on the steps reading, I was suddenly awakened by
a noise
I looked up to see my horse standing over mel I started to scold her
when my sister said, "Don’t you scold herI She just chased away a dog that was
sniffing your face and is now standing guardI"
Soon after we returned, I entered Art School in Milwaukee, Wisconsin,
during the day and business college at night, until I had a chance to play in the
theatre at nights, I played in the Prince of India at the Davidson Theatre. The
second year at Art School I attended classes both day and night. I had received
a scholarship the year before, so I had no tuition to pay. The scholarship
entitled me to attend evening classes as well as day classes.
A friend wanted me to go with her to Chicago, so the next year I
entered the Chicago Art Institute. Here I was fortunate to get into a class
taught by Mucha, who at that time was considered the greatest mural painter in
the world. The Art Institute had him over from France for a month, and I was
fortunate to be chosen as one of his pupils. The first year, I joined a club
of girls who lived quite a distance from school, so I had to ride the "El" back
and forth. The second year I took a job of baby sitting of a little girl, for
which I received room, board and street car fare. All I had to do was to take
her to the park after I returned from school. Her father was general manager
of the Stuart Speedometer Company. I became greatly attached to this family,
fact we became such good friends that we corresponded for nearly 60 years or until
the mother’s death.
r. ’•■. i-.»
At Christmas time, a friend wanted me to apply for a job at Marshall
Fields during the Christmas rush. I always liked to try new things so I applied.
"•4'
We had to give three references and state how much education we had had. Since I .
had had more education than my friend, they put me in the book department on the
eighth floor and she was placed in the basement. I received $8 a week and she
only earned $5» Now it is almost unbelievable that one could ever have lived on that
amount of money but she did. Obviously, even then an education counted
At the end of the spring term, I returned to Baraboo. I had not been
there long when I had a long distance call from Madison, offering me a job as
bookkeeper. A friend had recommended me to them. They offered me $50 a month,
which was high wages at that time. Ihis friend had been working two years in a
bank at a salary of but $32 a month. I accepted the offer and stayed with this
friend who lived at the other end of town, or five miles away. I rode horseback
to work even in the coldest weather. To keep my feet from freezing I wrapped
newspapers about them. Once I rode five hours in 40° below zero weather. The
firm I worked for had a barn for the horses and they kept mine there and fed it.
The barn man would bring her to me when I wanted her. I did not have to keep
regular hours. As long as I was back at five o’clock to cash up, I could ride
whenever I wanted to. I usually had my work done by noon so spent the afternoon .
riding
,
• -^3
�in Baraboo took a job in Madison.
I had met him in an odd way. His father had a
strawberry patch near town. I had wanted to get out and pick berries like old
times, so I got permission to pick some. A few days before my horse had reared and
came down on my one foot. It had swelled so that I couldn’t get my shoe on. I was
picking berries barefoot, which was not done in those days. This boy, the son of
the berry patch owner, came by and as I had never met him I was most embarrassed.
I tried to hide my feet under my dress, which was long as that was the style of the
day. That is the way I met my future husbandI He was a mechanic and electrician and
took the job as trouble shooter inspecting machines so that he could be near me. He
rode a motorcycle, a long Pierce Arrow, which I learned to ride. We took trips
though—he on the motorcyle and I on the horse.
Then one summer, I took the train to Cassa, Wyoming. This was 1912. My
sister was teaching there and had taken up a homestead of 640 acres. She wanted
me to take up one too, so I did.
In ■ the spring of 1913»I resigned as I had to
establish residency on the homestead, I told the people I worked for that I wanted
to spend the summer in the West
They offered to pay me half wages for the summer
if I would return, But
f
when I told them I planned to get married, they said, "Then
I suppose there is no chance of your returningl"
and I said,. "No chancel"
_
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certain the barn man was glad I left. He did not like my horse after he had tried
to ride her and she had bucked him off and jumped him. Workmen standing by had
rescued him from being stamped to death.
On our trip west we arrived at Cassa, Wyoming, by train—one that was
late. There were many tales told about its always being late. One story in <•
particular was good. It told about a lady who walked to town with a basket of
eggs. The engineer stopped the train and asked her if she wanted a ride, She
replied, "No thank you. I am in a hurryI"
” ’S
.-^15
When I left the Chicago Art Institute one of ray instructors said to me
"Keep up your art workI Don’t let a day go by that you do not paint1"
But for 15 years I did not touch a brush. It was hard for me to adjust
to married life as I had never done any housework, not even wash dishes. In my
first try at baking bread I forgot to put in the yeast. When it didn’t look right
I took the dough out and hii it under a rock so that my husband wouldn’t know.
But he found it when a bit of dough ran out from under the rockI
The wind blew so much in this country and the winters were severe. One
warm autumday we walked to our homestead to work on the house. It was a walk of
six miles. On the way back we stopped to visit friends. I was in the kitchen when
suddenly without warning a terrific wind blew a pail full of water off the table in
front of a window. I looked out of the window and saw my husband hanging onto a
water tank and the owner of the place grasping a fence post to keep from blowing
away. Within a matter of minutes the thermometer dropped to below zero and a
blinding snow hit—a typical Wyoming blizzard. Pty- husband walked home, which was
a distance of about a mile, and came back with warm clothes for me and his motorcyle
to take us home on. We really roughed it for the first few years. Our cabin was
a one-room house with an open porch where we slept even in winter when it .was
35°or 40° below zero. The cabin was built of boards running up and down with a
smaller board to cover the cracks. There was no insulation. It was not built for
cold weather. After a snow in the morning when I got up I had to dust the snow off
the books, as it would drift through the cracks. Our only heat was from an old
pot bellied stove. When the wind blew strong in zero weather we could stand tighV
against the stove and still see our breath. One day when our oldest was a few, ,,
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months old, a hailstorm hit so hard it tore off the roof and threatened to blow
the side in
llie wind was so strong, we pushed against the side wall as hard
as we could
When the hail quit it poured rain, and since we had no roof, I had
to push the baby’s bassinet under the table to keep him from drowning.
One time I had pleuracy. They took me to a train flag stop, which
consisted only of an old box car that had but three sides—one side having been
destroyed by fire. The train as usual was late, over an hour, and it was 3° below
zero. The doctor was
miles away. He gave me a prescription and I took the
next train back. 1 had to change trains part way home, and the station master
loaned me a lantern, as I had to walk two miles at the end of the trip. When I
got off the last train, another blizzard had hit, and the wind was so strong that
the lantern would not stay lit. I dared not go by road as I would get lost that
way, so, though much farther, I followed a draw with high sides that I would have
to climb to get out of. This draw was fenced off near the house, so when 1 came
to the fence I followed it to the gate and from there to the house. I had been so
frightened stumbling along in the dark that I had not thought of how I felt until
I arrived home. Suddenly, I realized that ray pleuracy had gons. I was completely
cured, either from breathing in that cold air or from the fear of freezing.
That spring I went back to visit my parents in Wisconsin, telling my
husband I wanted to get away from the wind. I stayed there two months and in
that time was in three cyclones. The first one was so strong that it blew a
large draft horse into the city from such a distance that they never located the
owner. The second storm blew by our house and snapped off a huge pine tree as if
it were a toothpick, then traveled across the road and mowed down a path of trees
30 feet wide. Our windmill on the farm was tied in a bow knoiti and five large trees
piled against the house. The third cyclone was not quite as bad, but I decided
that Wyoming was not so bad after all and so headed back.
We were not only a long distance from a doctor but also a dentist. One
day a sheepherder called and asked my husband if he would pull one of his teeth
which had been hurting. My husband asked if he had anything with which to pull
it. The man replied, “I carry mit me my monkey wrench and cold chisell"
After my first son was born, I road 16 miles on horseback after milk and
groceries. I took bad weather to go in, as during nice weather my husband worked
and couldn’t look after the baby. One time I was lost in a blizzard, so I let my
horse have his way and he headed for the river which was lined with trees. I
followed the river until I came to the ranch.
1
4*^^
While on the,ranch, I had started to raise horses. After the war the
prices for them went down, so after eight years on the ranch when we moved to
Casper, I just turned them out on the range. I hated to part with them, especially
two sorrels with white manes and tails. I kept only my first pony which was branded
In Casper, we lived in the airplane hanger, as my husband had charge of the
planes. In one end of the hanger they had built three rooms for living quarters.
The place was very comfortable after the homestead shack. Planes at that time were
small and if people dared to ride at all, they refused to go without insurance. We
had two accidents while I was there. One was the death of a parachute jumper. His
parachute had failed to open. There was a story about his fall. It was said that
he fell so far that it made a big dent in the ground. The ground around there was
as hard as a rock, but to satisfy the curious people who came to see the dent, I took
them out and showed them a place in the yard where there was a hallow place in the
ground.
>5?
�we were at the hanger a year when we bought a house in town. Soon after
we moved, a real estate man, having heard somewhere that I was a painter, called and
asked me to paint him a picture. He wanted it done that day, which was rather short
notice for I am not a lightning artist. Furthermore, I had done no painting for 15
years. There was a real estate convention in progress, and he wanted me to paint a
picture of a house with clouds in the background and in them another house—a dream
house. He was anxious for me to do it so he went downtown and bought a canvas and
stretched it for me.
I painted what I could each day, and he would then take it
each evening to display at the convention. By the time the convention was over, I
had finished it.
That started me painting once more, so I then painted an historical painting
of Casper in 1910. The governor of the state bought it and from that time on I
continued to paint and have been very lucky.
At that time, my husband took up a homestead on the Cheyenne River, 100
miles away. It was early spring when we drove there—my husband, a friend of his.
and our youngest of four, who was but three weeks old. When almost there we were
stopped by high water. The men found two logs and put them across the stream and
stood on each side to help while I drove over on the logs. After we crossed, we
came to a house but no one was home. In those days, the doors were always open to
anyone. Many a time I had made good use of this custom. There was always coffee on
the stove for guests. We stayed there five days before anyone showed up. We had been
working on our house. One night when we returned, two men were there. They had been
laughing about the baby clothes on the line, as they were bachelors.
After the cabin was finished, I spent sometime there with the children
and a girl from an orphans’ home who helped me with the children. Our only neighbors
were the two bachelors. One day there was a picnic 15 miles away. I wanted to go,
so I went out on the range and roped a horse and started out. I never got to the
picnic as I got lostJ I never did get to thank the owner of the horse, as I never
found out who owned him.
The last time I drove to the homestead, the house had been burned to the
ground. Only the stove remained. I later found out that it was done by moonshiners.
I had driven nearly all day and hated to go further but had to. It was spring and
the roads were nearly impassable. Then I was told that the road to Casper was
impassable, as it was washed out. This meant that I would have to go back and
around another way, adding a distance of another 100 isiiles. It was getting late,
and I decided to take a chance. I had to take to the sagebrush and devious detours.
In hitting rocks and high centers, the pan underneath would dent up onto the motor.
I had to get out and pound it back again, but I did finally get to Casper.
After that my husband relinguished this homestead and took up one on the
Platte River, only 12 miles from Casper. It was a beautiful location across a red
mountain called "Goose Egg Mountain." In later years, this mountain was the background
setting for the television play, "Hellsfighters. " It was an ideal spot for painting.
One day when I was painting the red hills behind.our house, a man came to me and started
talking. I thought he was a salesman and not wanting to be interrupted, I said to
him, "I do not want to buy anything." He replied, "But I dot I am here to buy some
of your paintings." He wanted paintings for Yellowstone Park and during the next
two years I painted 1,^65 of them for him.
The ranch was two miles from the Goose Egg ranch which was made famous by “
Owen Wister’s book, ”The Virginian." The last water color painting I ever painted
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�was an order for Owen Wister for this Goose Egg ranch building. I wish I had kept
a record of the number of Goose Egg ranch paintings that I did, as there has always
been a demand for them, even though the building has been gone for many years. The
owner of the place once said to me when I was there painting a picture of the
building, "I bet you have made more money on the place than I have." A few years
later when there was a national exhibit at Rockefeller Institute, where each state
was represented by one painting, one of my paintings of the Goose Egg ranch was
chosen.
The schoolhouse where my boys went to school was near here and they had to
walk the two miles each way. One beautiful sunny day, they went off to school with
light sweaters. That afternoon the thermometer dropped to 35® below zero. The
teacher put some of her warm clothes on them to keep them from freezing while
walking home.
We had milk cows that used to wander and were sometimes hard to find. Our
neighbor across the river had cows too and each morning our cows would swim across
to his side and his cows would come over to our side. To get our cows back, one of
our boys would have to walk to a bridge two miles away. When they found the cows
they would ride one of them back, herding the rest. The bull was their favorite
"steed." The river was noted for quicksand. One time, the highway department found
the bull nearly buried in quicksand and pulled him out. Another time we found one of
the cows in the quicksand. My husband managed to get a chain around her before she
sank too low. By the time he could get the tractor to pull her out, she had sunk
until only her head was out of water. However, he managed to pull her out. It was
one o'clock in the morning before we got her out. I started home with her. On the
way, after being in the water for hours, she stopped to drink out of a mud puddle.
It looked to me as if she had had enough of water, but that is a cow for yout
One day, when I was working in the garden, a man came to me and asked for
a bottle. When I told him I didn’t know what he was talking about, he became rather
obnoxious. Then my husband climbed up on the mountain behind our home and looked
about. Finally, he discovered, well-hidden in the brush, a small entrance to crawl
through to a moonshine still. He notified the authorities and there were no more
demands of me for bottles.
Our cattle did not have too much range, and we were bothered by sheep men.
My boys came home one night and told me that a large herd of sheep was grazing on
the far end of our land. I took a shotgun, drove over, pointed the gun at the
sheepherder and told him to move the sheep off our land. The next morning I went
back at daylight, as I was certain he wo;id drift them back onto our land. Sure
enough, he hadl So I hustled him off againJ When I dropped back to the rear,
one of his helpers without the owner’s knowledge put two sheep in the trunk of my
car, saying that his boss had a habit of making trouble for ranchers.
There was a cliff behind the house that was perpendicular for 25 feet. To
climb this, I had to take off my shoes and use the cracks in the rocks for steps.
One day when snow was on the ground, I threw the shoes down first to make better
use of my hands. One of them slid down the slope 100 feet, and I had to walk
through the snow without shoes. The water from the spring dropped off the cliff
and froze, making huge icicles up to the width of 30 feet.
We had a large garden of vegetables and flowers, as well as fruit trees. When
the depression came, I started to travel and paint where the paintings sold best.
I spent most of the summers on dude ranches, Jacson Hole, Yellowstone Park and the
Big Horn mountains. Here I met a lady from Switzerland ■sdiose hobby was mountain
climbing. From her I acquired the desire to climb to the highest spots.
�16
The next summer I spent in Yellowstone Park and Jackson Hole. I had my
yo^gest son with me. Evenings we spent playing games on the park tables. We had
a battery lantern. The rangers had warned us about bear, as they had been bad that
year. One evening, as we were playing flinch, we could tell by the sound that very
near us, though not visible, two bears started a fight. My son grabbed some of the
cards and the lantern and said, "Let’s finish this in the car." I replied. "Let’si"
We made for the car.
I have had quite a few experiences with bears though I enjoyed them. Not
one time though did I enjoy them, for in camp that time a bear entered our tepee and
destroyed the contents. Our dog woke me and there was the bear fighting with our
tied to the rear wheel, so I slipped out and pulled the slip knot
that held him and hustled him in the car. It was a bit scary as I was but a few feet
from the bear, which looked awfully big standing on his hind legs.
At two different times, bears have licked my facel One time when I was
alone in the park, I was visited each day by a two-year-old.bear. I kept a small
pile of rocks on the bench to throw about. He always went after the pebbles,
thinking they were food, but it kept him away from me. After a while, he became
discouraged and didn’t visit me every day and I missed him. The last time I saw him
was after a heavy snow fall. As he passed me, he looked rather pitifully at me, as
much as to say, "Please, won’t you give me something to eat, just this once?"
One fall when I had my son with me, I didn’t know just which way to head,
east or west, so I flipped a coin. It said, "west" so west we went. That winter wo
spent in Hood River, Oregon. That spring we returned to Wyoming via Los Angeles,
luma and Phoenix. We spent the summer in Jackson Hole. From that time on I spent
the summers at the Square G guest ranch. It was a wonderful place with 32 cabins and
in order to get one, we had to reserve it a year in advance. We formed quite a group
as the same people returned year after year. When I wasn’t painting, I was hiking,
riding, horseback or mountain climbing. One time some people from my home state of
Wisconsin had been waiting several days to see the mountains, which clouds had
obstructed from view. I said, "Why not climb above the clouds to see them?" So
we did) They got to see the tops of the mountains. We climbed as far as the glaciers.
One place we had to climb up and down on two cables. Of course, there was no foot
hold) We had to depend entirely on our arms, like a monkey climbing a rope. If we
had dropped, we would have fallen 1000 feet. It was quite a thrill, but I wouldn’t
care to do it again) On the way back it was getting dark, so instead of following
the path on the switchbacks, we sat down and slid)
One other time, a friend and I climbed up on a mountain trail to a lake.
Night overtook us and we had quite a time trailing back. The only way not to miss
the path was to take a stick and feel the hardness of the ground. It was a cloudy
night and completely dark among the pines. It took us until one o^clock in the
morning to return.
Square G ranch is no longer there. After the owners sold it, all of the
buildings were moved to Coulter Bay. Not a trace of residency shows now. It has
gone back to the wilds) The owners of the Square G spent their winters in
Twentynine Palms, California, and I too moved there for the winters. It was a
very sociable town. I joined the rock club and we had many expeditions hunting rocks.
I also joined the camera club and the Daughters of the Revolution. The' town grew
fast as well as the surrounding country. The area was soon filled with five-acre
homesteads, some of which was sub-divided after proving up. This meant more bn-^Tdings
so at night it began to look like a big city as far as one could see.
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After Mr. Gabbey died, a few years after w© went to Twentynin© Palms,
I used to drive my car up to Jackson Hole and leave it there. take the bus back
and drive Mrs. Gabbey‘s car back for her. One time in late Jun© when I went down
it was 120° so I drove only at night
Another summer I took th© train to Detroit, Michigan, to buy a car. I
visited Niagara Falls and Eastern Canada, I camped out all the way. One camp was
the best on© I had ©ver known. It was on Lak© Huron and only a small camp but with
all the horn© comforts, including hot water stoves, Washington machines. Twice a
we©k they sprayed for mosquitoes and flies
Also they had movies each night at no
charge
They were like indoor movies, but w© sat on benches or chairs out-of-doors
watching the movies and listening to the loud speaker
One summer I headed east for the coast and traveled through 43 states and
much of Eastern Canada. This was an interesting trip, as I saw unusual things such
as th© houses along th© Gulf of Mexico which are set up on “stilts." However, under
many of them th© space was filled with boxes and refuse of all kinds. It was
interesting to see th© mammies working in the fields with their bandannas on their
heads. In on© place a row of little pickaninnies fished from.a foot bridge. I was
intrigued by the long bridges about New Orleans. On© was 14 miles long. In Florida
I was fascinated by th© swamps and alligators.
The best road that I traveled was the New Jersey turnpike. We had to
ferry across the Chesapeake Bay, the longest distance I had ever ferried. They
were building a 17-mile long bridge but it was unfinished.
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Mammoth Cav© was interesting but not as pretty as Carlsbad Caverns. At
one place, called the corkscrew, a real fat person could never have gotten through
as it was small. Th© ranger told me that they never let them in there. Most of
lighted so w© carried lanterns. Part way down there was a pond
the cave was
of water where w© rode in boats and sang songs. Our singing had a wierd sound deep
down in th© earth. I visited th© backwoods and th© hillbillies. Sundays they sit
on the porches of their houses all dressed up with fine-looking cars in the yard.
Some of the houses on© would hardly dare enter for fear they would collapse.
I stayed th© longest time at the park at Bar Harbor, Maine. It is a
beautiful park. W© would go out and pick wild raspberries, or go fishing. I had
all the fish I could ©at while there. It was an ideal place for painting and I
mad© us© of it. Th© water in th© ocean was a bit cold so we went in a section filled
by high water that was much warmer. Maine, New Hampshire and Vermont are beautiful
states and also adjacent areas in Canada. I re-visited Niagara Falls and this time
spent more time on th© Canadian side. I took the interesting trip under the falls.
It was a wonderful suDnner. But when I arrived in Baraboo, Wisconsin,
where I had had my letters forwarded to, I received a letter stating that the
bank where I kept my money had closed for a time. A cashier had absconded with
$600,000. Luckily, I had credit cards and a few travellers checks left. When I
finally arrived in Twentynine Palms, I had only eighty cents left, but by that time
the bank had re-opened.
In 1958, I drove to Alaska. It was a grand trip in spite of the roads
or lack of themI The summer was cold and rainy, so it was difficult to get pictures
of the mountains on account of th© clouds. On th© way ther©, one of the bridges was
washed out and we had to drive more than a mile on the railroad bridge. There ar©
many interesting spots along the highway, like the Atlasta House, which got its
name in an odd way. It took quit© a while to build and the family had to live in
a t»nt until it was finished. When it was completed, the lady was so glad, she
cried out, "At lastI A House!" So they named it Atlasta House.
■
�18
To keep supplies away from animals, they built "cashes," small log
buildings on poles. They were very picturesque. There are few buildings along
the highway. One I saw near the road had a sign over the door, reading "Rancho
not so Grande," It was abandoned, Chitina is an abandoned town—-ghost town-with but few people living there, I could see why for as I traveled in deep mud
for many miles, expecting any minute to be stuck.
•
I took many pictures, among them one of an Indian fish wheel that turns
by the flow of the water, scooping up fish and dumping them in a box. I took some
pictures of Anchorage from a helicopter. They charge one dollar a minute, so I
didn’t stay up too long. I visited a friend living on the Spit, a narrow strip of
land jutting out in the ocean four and a half miles from Homer. At Kenai there is
a remarkable church, the first one built in Alaska by the Russians. This hnilriing
as all other structures there that were built by the Russians was noted for its
unique structure, the logs fitting perfectly without nails.
Of course, I had to visit Mt. McKinley. The superintendent of the
forest rangers, where I had stopped to see a dog race with sleds on wheels as there
was no snow, warned me not to go. He told me the road was under construction so I
would be going at my own risk. The only other way in was by plane. Ihe road was
hard to travel and in one place I really took a chance. 13aey were building a bridge
and had only the stringers up. There were no boards on it. As the stringers were
just the same distance apart as the car wheels, I drove across on the stringers.
This reminded me of another time when I took a big chance. On a trip in Wyoming I
was traveling on an old side road when I came to a bridge that had lost a piling
on one end. It was hanging down on that side with no support, I crossed the
bridge all right but I had a hard time making the bank on the other side. It was
badly washed out. There must have been a bad flood, as I passed a house where they
had all the furniture and bedding outside to dry out. The only way I managed to
cross that bridge was by making a fast run for it—fast enough to jump over the
fallen end.
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I stayed near Mt. McKinley five days before the clouds lifted so I could
get pictures of it. Then at one o’clock in the morning I finally did get to see the
entire mountain. One of the advantages of Alaska is that one can take snap shots
any hour of the day or night in summer. When I left Alaska, I headed for the Yukon,
again over a road that was just being built. I had gone over about 20 miles of it
when I came to a sign which read, "Resume breathing, only three more miles."
On my way to Alaska I met few people, but what few I did meet were very
friendly. One oar from New York was traveling rather slow as it was overloaded.
They had started out with a small one-wheel trailer which broke down along' the way.
They had abandoned it, putting the contents in the car. I would stop to take
pictures and they would pass me. Soon I would pass them. Finally, we both stopped
and in that way became acquainted. Before long, four of our cars traveled together,
finally parting at Whitehorse. One of the drivers had to be back in New York to
begin school as he was a professor there. The last night in Whitehorse we played a
game of hearts. The one who got beat had a spanking coming. I was sure I would be
the one, as I had played it but twice before. Just at the last the professor lost.
He was the one we all spanked!
The ghost town of Dawson in the Yukon is the most interesting ghost town
I had ever visited. There is a fine museum there. I visited it with some friends
I had made on the trip.
While looking at one of their dog sleds, I was telling
them a story told me by an old-timer who had been in the Klondike gold rush. When
he was on his way to the gold fields, a lady with goats instead of dogs pulling the
sled was going along with them. They thought it a joke and that she would never
make it. But she not only made it, but when they arrived to where they had to take
a boat the others had to sell their dogs, while she was able to sell her goats to
the ship’s captain and was then hired as a cook. While I was telling the story.
�the lady in charge of the museum overheard me and came up to us and said, "Yes,
I knew her. She came here to Dawson and lived the rest of her life here." We
planned on rides on the boat Klondike, but the boats were not running. I,did
take a picture of it as it was moored near by.
The country around Dawson was pretty well torn up from the gold mining.
One of the huge dredges was abandoned but one was still running.
* ■
*'
J
On the way to Whitehorse, I stopped at a settlement of a few log houses
where a few Indian; children were playing. I wanted to take a picture of them, but
they didn’t want me to. When I took out n^y pocket book and offered each a dime,
they gladly let me. I had no more than taken the picture when from every direction
a stream of Indians headed hqt way. They evidently wanted dimes too. I had to get
away in a hurry or my dimes would give out, so I drove off.
I was luckier than many in not having my windshield broken. In traveling
through Canada a lot, I have learned to slow up when meeting a car, and if they are
going very fast, to stop altogether. Canada has beautiful scenery. Revelstroke was
one of iny favorite spots. There was at that time a camp on top of a mountain above
the city. To get to it, one had to follow a winding road 18 miles. At one place
about half way, one can look straight down onto the city. I camped at this camp
one night. Flowers peeked out of the snow. Jasper is another beautiful spot that
stands out. They have a fine camp there. Canada has so many beautiful spots, and
their camps are immaculate, which is more than I can say of those in the United
States. There are too many litterbugs here, and in Canada they are more strict.
One morning a mountain climber put his pack on one of the tables. Immediately, he
was told to take it off. Then he put it on a bench, but was told to lay it on the
floor. Their tables and benches are kept so clean that they shine.
Southern California is one of the places I like. I belong to the Death
Valley 49‘rs. They have a variety of entertainment^. I always enjoy their donkey
races. Oldtimers start with their burros from one of a field, lead the burros to
*
the other end (and some are hard to lead), unpack, build a fire, and cook pancakes,
;
and then make the burro eat them. The first to succeed wins a prize. One year a
red-headed oldtimer was the first to get the cakes cooked, but he couldn’t get the
burro to eat them and so lost. Guess the burro didn’t like his cooking.
Almost every place has scenery that is interesting to paint, like the red
rocks of the Garden of the Gods in Colorado and Bryce Canyon. Bie ranch in Wyoming
also has the red rocks. I would like to have been to all the places my paintings
have gone, from London to Southern Africa and from Alaska to Peru, South America.
In 1966, I moved to Post Falls, Idaho, to be near three of my sons. This
is a beautiful place among the pines on the Spokane River, not far from town, but
still in the country. My son Howard builds boats and my son Scott did help him but
is now working at the Consolidated Welding, Rawlins, Wyoming. The third son, Richard,
is superintending building projects near, so I get to see him often. Each year now
I have to drive to Wyoming to see Scott and to Huntington Beach to see my youngest
son, Donald and family. It is good though to visit friends in Wyoming and also in
Twentynine Palms, California.
Two years ago, Scott went with me, first to Canada and then south. It was
a great disappointment to see the old favorite places as they are now, so crowded
and commercialized. The wild woods are no more and no where can one get away from
the crowds or unfrequented highways. I am glad though that I was privileged to have
seen it when its beauty was untouched. In the United States it is the same.
.
J:
''
�20
visited QduLter Bay camp where the Square G buildings had been moved.
7™.^®
place, but there is but one narrow road out of the surrounding woods.
After the fxre I drove through in the Yukon, I was impressed with the fire hazard
and kept thinking of what a hard time people would have trying to get out all at
the same time in case of fire. On ray trip .of 1958, near Whitehorse, I drove through
a fire that was on both sides of the road. While taking a picture of a burning pine
by the roadside some pines behind me exploded with the sound of a cannon. I had to
even drive oyer a burning log to go on. It was har;? to drive through the smoke
and the terrific heat. It was a narrow two-car road and flames almost touched ray
car. They had told me that they were closing the road, but if I hurried through
they would let me go on. I hadn’t hurried though, as I had been stopping to take
pictures. Finally, I did hurry though.
The fire came so close to Whitehorse that people were warned to have their
cars ready for getting out in a hurry. After driving through this fire, I could not
help but see the fire hazard at Coulter Bay.
Scott and I had a nice trip south. While we were in Twentynine Pal ms,
friends took us on a jeep trip to the top of a mountain. Another friend put on a
party for me, so I was able to meet many of my friends again.
Then we went to Huntington Beach to visit my son Don. One of Don’s
friends took Scott and Don over Los Angeles in his plane. They also went fishing'
one day in the Pacific Ocean.
On the trip back we visited Yosemite Park and Lake Tahoe. The changes in
both places were even greater than in other places. Roads were closed and the only
way to get to see anything was by walking.
^fe is often sad but often funny, like one time when I was ipainting up in
the mountains near Laramie, Wyoming. We had a grasshopper plague at the time and the
children I had taken with me were having fun catching them. They had a small can to
put the grasshoppers in, but it was soon full. Then they asked me to hold them in my
hand which I did. I painted with one hand, while I held the grasshoppers in the other.
I may not be much of an artist, but I wager no other artist ever did that.
During my life I have had much to be thankful for. I am very grateful for
the appreciation of those who have liked my paintings. Selling them, not directly,
but through dealers as I do, I do not always know where they go. But I have been
told that many have been bought by prominent people, including Delano Roosevelt,
Owen Wister, Tom Waring of the Pennsylvanians and an English ambassador. Some of ay
paintings have gone to many different countries from Alaska to Peru, South America,
and from London to Southern Africa.
Last year my son, Howard, and I spent three days hunting rocks in Southern
Oregon. Then he headed back north and I went south, where I ran into snow at Winnemuoa.
I drove all day in a snowstorm. I finally arrived at Twentynine Palms and while there
took another jeep ride and attended another party given me by a friend.
Again I visited my son and family in Hun ting ton Beach. Don took me on a
very interesting trip where whild animals and birds are kept. We drove along among
the lions, rhinocerous, ostriches and all kinds of birds, as well as all kinds of
other animals—the largest, the elephant. It was like Daktari on a small scale.
As the passes were snowbound in Nevada, the road I usually travel, I came
via Sacramento and Portland. It is quicker but not as nice as Nevada, where one can
stop to take pictures or have a cup of coffee, as one could do anywhere in the old
days. Then £iso one did not have to travel 60 or 70 miles an hour!
I have had much to be thankful for in my lifetime, which has extended from
�
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Rosemary Malone Papers
Description
An account of the resource
This digital collection contains materials from the Rosemary Malone Papers, which are composed of various pieces of Mrs. Rosemary Malone's life. Some of these materials include personal documents and photographs, maps and materials on Wyoming history, notes on historians and historic sites, a memoir of Dorothy Marie Dolph's, papers and reports on Casper residents, an obituary in memoriam of her, and a plaque for her library advocacy, among other items.
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Rosemary Malone; Dorothy Marie Dolph
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ENG
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Rosemary Malone Papers
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CCA 10.1987.01
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Memoirs: Dorothy Marie Dolph
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This is a digitized copy of a written memoir of Dorothy Marie Dolph's who was born in Baraboo, WI in 1834. Dolph became a landscape painter with a focus on western life and scenery.
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Doroth Marie Dolph
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ENG
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ab27f1fdc6baef58c746367fd8bff238
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Chinook Student Newspaper, CCA 08.i.2023.01 WyCaC US. Casper College Archives and Special Collections.
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Casper College
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30865dd417c4bd22f64903ca038beeea
PDF Text
Text
WyCaC WHC 1989.002.010
Casper College
Western History Center
Oral History Cooperative
WHCOH011
Dr. Lloyd Loftin
Oral History Conducted July 26 2011
Interview by Teri Hedgpeth
At the Western History Center
Casper College
Dr. Lloyd Loftin was President of Casper College. In this oral history he discusses his childhood
in an oil camp, university in Illinois, service in the Air Force as a Vet-Tech, and his time at
Casper College.
Teri Hedgpeth: My name is Teri Hedgpeth, today is July 26, 2011. We are at the Western
History Center and I will be interviewing Dr. Lloyd Loftin, former Casper College President. Dr.
Loftin, where were you born?
Lloyd Loftin: I was born at home, all my brothers were too. In Humble Oil Camp about 4 or 5
miles outside of Wilson, Oklahoma in Carter County.
Hedgpeth: And you said Homa Oil?
Loftin: Humble, Humble Oil Company.
Hedgpeth: Humble Oil Company, all right, I’m sorry.
Loftin: It later became Exxon.
Hedgpeth: Okay. Was your father an oilman?
Loftin: Yeah, Dad was a laborer. My dad lacked education but he never had much of a chance. I
think he finally got through the eighth grade but he was a promoter of education I’ll say. But,
yeah he did, he dug ditch, laid pipeline. Back then it was all hand done of course, and a he
worked very hard. But he also, when he got home, had big gardens, so we ate well, even during
the depression. But this was a large oilfield and we moved to two other large oilfields as they
opened up. Dad was instrumental in getting those done. That was about it, it was a rural life.
People very close.
This camp probably had 28 to 30 families. Back then they also had barracks for the single
employees. They furnished us everything, water, ice what have you. Natural gas they would burn
it all over the place to get rid of it so we had all the natural gas we could burn in the winters. But
it was quite a good place to grow up because I think it developed my interest in biological
sciences, because I was wondering around asking myself questions. Why is that? Why did that
happen? These kinds of things. My dad was always interested in animals. We had cows and
horses, what have you so, but that was about my early years. I went to the age of five, I started
elementary school and it was a little rural elementary school.
1
�WyCaC WHC 1989.002.010
Casper College
Western History Center
Oral History Cooperative
WHCOH011
Went there one year and then we were transferred, dad was transferred to Seminole,
Oklahoma where they opened a new oilfield there and there was a camp there but we couldn’t
get any housing there so dad had a house built just outside of the camp and we lived there for a
few years. Then he was transferred to Illinois. They had opened a new field there and I
remember I asked dad, I said, “Why, and I was crying, why, in the world are we going to move,
I’ll lose all my friends?” you know how it is with this kind of stuff. And I said, “Why in the
world are we moving?” It tickled my dad and he said “That’s where they are mailing my check.”
and I understood then. But then, let me see, we moved up there, I was in – let’s see, in Seminole I
went to a rural elementary school. Then, when we moved on out to, Illinois. But first of all, we
moved into a little town of Cowden because we couldn’t get any housing, but I mean it was
boom and housing was terribly scarce.
Hedgpeth: What year was this?
Loftin: This was 1939, and so dad found a remote house in a little town of Cowden, Illinois
which was on the north end of the oilfield; kind of a primitive little place. We had one stove in
the house and we burned anthracite coal and if you stayed right next to the stove it wasn’t too
bad. But, you go anywhere else, we had a refrigerator; but, we put stuff in it to keep it from
freezing. Honestly, it was cold. But, we lived there about two months and I started school there
and then we moved to- had a house built there (house he mentioned earlier outside of oilfield)
and we moved there and entered a school there. So, I actually went to three schools in the same
year. Had an interesting, I keep saying, I couldn’t have grown up in a better place, small town,
2,000 people. It was basically German. German Lutheran, German Catholic and they were not
overly receptive to what they called “The Erlers,” the people who worked in the oil field. But
once they found out we weren’t going to eat ‘em up, I guess they warmed up and it was a nice
place to grow up. Had a lot of good friends there and when I finished high school, and I’ll always
remember, this one, we had 32 at our graduating class.
Hedgpeth: What year was that?
Loftin: That was in 1946. My older brother had just gotten back from WWII and was living in
town and his wife and daughter, but none of my family, had ever gone to college, as far back on
either side, no one ever went to college of course never graduated, and dad wanted me to go to
college. Well, we didn’t know a thing about it so, college started September 2, as I remember,
and we decided the weekend before, I better go up and see what was going on. This was when
the GI’s were coming back after World War II and there were all over the place and it was hard to
get classes, hard to get anything like in freshman because they were basic and all freshman and
so the freshman classes, and the administration was out collecting anyone they thought could
teach school. I decided I wanted to go into pre-med and I got an advisor, he was a PHD Chemist,
never taught a day in his life, and he actually owned a string of dry good stores across Illinois.
But anyway, he was not a good teacher and a terrible advisor and so at the end of the first year,
which was not a happy year. I had not had chemistry in high school, so chemistry was a tough
road to hoe. They put me in German and everyone in the class had been stationed in Germany.
2
�WyCaC WHC 1989.002.010
Casper College
Western History Center
Oral History Cooperative
WHCOH011
We had one girl who was a native German and a teacher who was a native German and she said,
“Oh, well good, we’ll just speak German.” I mean for a guy who had trouble with English, that
thing was eating my lunch.
But anyway, at the end of my freshman year, I went back to my advisor then to enroll for
the sophomore year and I said “I want another advisor.” “Why?” I said, “You have no more
interest in me than you do anything else around here. I want someone who looks at me as an
individual, not as a number or –“He said, “Oh, you must want to see” I said, “I want to stay in
the sciences”. He said, “You must want to see Dr. Stover.” I said, “Where is he?” He said, “That
guy right over there, bald headed guy.” Okay, so I go over and wait; a lot of people he is working
with and I told him, “I want to change my major and I want to go into Botany and he said, “Well
let’s go up here and talk.” So we went up to the top of the gym, sat down and visited and he was
interested in me. And I found that whole department, there were three people in the Botany
department and all of them were master teachers and they had interest in each of their students as
an individual and they would have us over to their house after a field trip and we would talk to
the other Botany majors, about where we had been, what we did and what we saw. And so, Dr.
Stover was head of the department. Dr. Thut, he was German, taught physiology, he was tough.
And Dr. Damon had been chief microbiologist for the Chicago City Waterworks, and he wanted
to get into teaching and so he came down there and he made an excellent, excellent teacher. In
fact, he got me into microbiology quite a ways, and of course, I came here and taught it for a
couple years.
Hedgpeth: Was this the University of Illinois?
Loftin: No, it was Eastern Illinois. It started out Eastern Illinois Teachers’ College. I think even
before that it was Normal School and Teacher’s College and became a State College; it was
growing very rapidly, and is now Eastern Illinois State University.
Hedgpeth: And where is that located?
Loftin: Charleston, Illinois.
Hedgpeth: Okay.
Loftin: Ah, there were five State Colleges that were teachers colleges. University of Illinois
dominated higher education, somewhat like other things we know. And so they were trying to
keep everything pretty well under their thumb but the GI’s coming back, schools were growing.
They got some political power and then they all became State Colleges at the same time. They
are all now State Universities.
But, again, I couldn’t have gone to a better place. I only ran into two or three knotheads
that were really not good teachers. I remember the Dean of Women, that is when they had Dean
of Men and Dean of Women, she wore a suit and male type haircut, wore horned rim glasses,
tall, rangy kind of old gal but very prim and proper. And we used to argue, she was a real
advocate of liberal education and I told her one day, I said “If I want a liberal education, I’d
3
�WyCaC WHC 1989.002.010
Casper College
Western History Center
Oral History Cooperative
WHCOH011
major in liberal arts. I’m interested in science and that’s all I want!” Typical knothead, but
anyway.
Hedgpeth: [laughs], I was going to ask you, what would you classify as a “knothead” or not a
good teacher?
Loftin: Well, that’s an oaky term; it’s a person that you disagree with or gives you a hard time.
But she, she turned me around in my thinking somewhat. I majored in Botany and minored in
Zoology, History and Education. And basically, they were still training teachers, period. But, I
found that I was working very hard because of loving what I was doing. That can inspire you too
want to know more, more, and more. One of the things that I found out too by taking zoology,
things I had asked myself questions as I was growing up, I was finding answers and it was so
satisfying to all of a sudden, a question would come back into my mind and there is the answer,
and, so that inspired me as well. My dad as I said was always a gardener and I found answers to
certain things that were going on in his garden that I had wondered, you know, why did this
happen, or how did that take place, or what have you.
But anyway, I finished my, I worked real hard. We were on a quarter system and my
senior year, the whole three quarters, I had lab sciences, four lab sciences a quarter, and that was
an overload but I was having fun. And so I graduated, got my bachelors June 4, 1950. And I
decided that I had already decided to want to go to the University of Oklahoma and start my
master’s. Two of my good buddies, we had gone to high school together, played basketball
together, and we all went to college together. They both wanted to start teaching and one was a
mathematician and the other was in, oh what they call it, anyway Shop types of things.
Hedgpeth: Okay.
Loftin: Anyway, they both went to the Chicago area. One taught Math in Evergreen Park which
is a southern suburb of Chicago. The other one taught Manual Arts over, near Cicero, which is
the in the Northwestern area of the Chicago area. I decided I wanted to go to the University of
Oklahoma and get my Master’s, so they started teaching and I took off. And the Dean of the
School of, or the Department of Botany, but he was a Dean of Science, University of Oklahoma.
He was my advisor and I went in and he said “What do you want to do?” I told him and he said,
“Oh, no, no.” He said, “I’ve looked over your transcript,” he said “You have more biological
sciences with your Bachelor’s Degree than our Master’s people have. And I [he] said, “So, we’re
going to broaden your education.” I said, “I didn’t come down here to get my education
broadened.” I said, “I feel sorry for your Master’s people.” I’m sure they got a good education;
but, I had concentrated on the biological sciences and I wanted more. Well anyway, he said,
“Well, I am your advisor and you take what I tell you to take, or I won’t sign it.” And so, I went
ahead, I was there, had paid my tuition [laughs]. And so anyway, I started the classes and one of
them was scientific German, one was the history of science, I don’t remember the other two, but
anyway I did meet some good people one who became a lifelong friend. He was interesting, you
ought to interview him.
4
�WyCaC WHC 1989.002.010
Casper College
Western History Center
Oral History Cooperative
WHCOH011
Hedgpeth: What’s his name?
Loftin: Now, you shouldn’t ask me that.
Hedgpeth: Oh, I’m sorry.
Loftin: Dale, shew, I’ll think of it.
Hedgpeth: Okay.
Loftin: But, I also met my first wife there and we dated for a while. So, it went on Christmas and
I thought the Korean War was getting real hot and my two buddies that had started teaching, they
drafted them out of the classroom; both of them wounded up in the army. One spent his whole
time, and one of my friends was his wife, spent their two years in Alaska, near the Aleutian
Islands. Paul wound up in Korea and I don’t know what he done but he wound up with the
Bronze Star; but anyway, when I got home for Christmas I said, “I better see what the draft
board, where I stand with the draft board.” So I go over and said, “Where am I on your list
here?” They said, “You’re number one on the hit parade,” and so I went home and told the folks.
My older brother, who was in the infantry, was in Patton’s third army in World War II. He said,
“Don’t be a gravel grinder, infantry.” My dad had been in the Cavalry in World War I, he said
“Don’t get in the army.” So, we talked it over and I enlisted in the Air Force and so I left on a
Monday morning early to go to St. Louis to be sworn in and find out where I was going, and that
morning at 10:00 o’clock, in the mail at my folks home, was a letter from the draft board, telling
me I was being drafted. And Dad told me this on the phone, “What did you do?” He said, “I just
wrote on it, whereabouts unknown.” My dad would never lie; he didn’t know where I was.
Because of course I had enlisted and we went up to basic training. An awful lot of people were
enlisted, taken in the air force, there were 14,000 wound up at Lackland Field the same day that I
got there. All of them new enlistees, but sworn in in St. Louis; had our physical in St. Louis, and
then they put us on a train to San Antone, Texas, Lackland Air Force Base.
Went through basic, typical basic. Wife wants to go back to San Antone and I said
“Never.” [laughs] We’ll go back; she wants to do the Riverwalk that kind of stuff. But anyway,
got through basic and I, there were so many people, there having difficulty finding appropriate
places to go after the basic training; and I pulled guard duty at night, guarded a swimming pool,
an empty swimming pool, with a tent stake. I asked my Sergeant “Whose going to steal that
thing?” He didn’t appreciate my questioning him [laughs]. Anyway, I pulled guard duty, I
guarded an empty barracks; got to see guys in OCS just across, Officers Candidate School, and I
decided I didn’t want to do that.
But anyway, eventually a Master Sargent called me and said to go to Career Counseling.
This was a new deal the Air Force had, instead of saying “you go there,” go to Career
Counseling. So I go in and the old boy, he was a Master Sargent, been in 20, 25, 30 years and he
was an uneducated individual and he said to me “What do you want to do?” And I said, “Well.”
he said, “Wait a minute, let me look at your papers?” so he looked at it, “Oh, you’ve got a
college transcript?” He said, “You’ve got a Bachelor’s Degree in Bot-tan- ny?” I said, “Yes.”
5
�WyCaC WHC 1989.002.010
Casper College
Western History Center
Oral History Cooperative
WHCOH011
“What is that?” I said, “It’s the study of plant science.” “Hell, we ain’t got no gardens.” This is
Career Counseling. So anyway, he said, “I don’t know, let me go see what schools are open.”
And he was gone, pretty soon he came back. He said, “We got a truck driver school, it’s Army, in
El Paso.” And he said, “We’ve got a cook school open,” I forget where it was and he said “found
also, we got a weather school open Rantoul, Illinois, Air Base. I said, “Well I’ve had
meteorology and climatology and what have you, and that sounds interesting to me.” He said,
“Well, let me go check on it.” So he took off. And he had been gone probably 15 minutes and a
Major stuck his head in the door and said “Are you Private Loftin?” I said “Yes sir.” He said,
“Come with me.” I said “Well Sergeant went down to check on a school and he told me to stay
right here.” He said, “I outrank him, come on.” I never saw the Sergeant again.
Anyway, they were starting a school for Veterinary, in what they called Veterinary
Science and I had been to school in Chicago. Army School, no wait a minute, I’m getting ahead
of myself. He said “We’re starting, this and we are letting only people who have Bachelor
Degrees in the Biological Sciences. And so he told me a little about what they did, it’s basically
food purchase, food inspection and sanitation on bases, cooking facilities, barracks, all kinds of
things where you run into animals. Also, taking care of Military animals and dependent animals.
And GI’s will pick up any animal, anywhere in the world and drag it back. So anyway, I said,
“Well, it sounds interesting.” “Where do you want to go, where do you want to be stationed?”
And I said, “Well,” it’s a wonder I didn’t get court martialed, I said, “Well, sir it makes no
difference, I won’t go there anyway,” but, I said “I would like to go to Oklahoma City, Tinker
Field, Oklahoma City.” He said, “Okay, next week you’ll be there.” I said, “Oh yeah.” [laughs]
I had listened to my brother too much. But anyway, the next week I was at Tinker Field,
Oklahoma City.
That’s some tremendous people, they were like me, they were out of college, all
biological scientists, a number of them wanted to go into that school but they had to get the
service out of the way first. I learned a lot about food manufacturing, processing, storage, food
facilities, where you get into all kinds of problems, and mess halls and that type thing. So
anyway, they said, “You gotta go to school” and so I was sent to Fifth Army Headquarters in
Chicago and was, they had a, the Army had a barracks feeding facility so forth at the stock yards,
in South Chicago, and that was our school. We had fifty students. They had 47 Army and 3 Air
Force and all of our instructors were Veterinarians, or Veterinary Techs they called them, these
were enlisted men who knew their business in certain areas, food purchase, and we’ll go there,
had some interesting times there, the Air Force, what they called “brass” that’s the emblems on
your hats and on your jackets and so forth used to be oxidized aluminum, no polish, well the
army, that’s one of the things they like to get people on is not keeping their brass polished. So
they were always on us, “You ought to polish that stuff.” We said the Air Force regulations, blah,
blah, blah says, you know, “you don’t.” We [Air Force] were allowed to wear suspenders, in the
Army they were not, so we bought suspenders [laughs].
But that was a tremendous school. We were at the stock yards and we saw, during that we
were there twelve weeks and we saw almost everything made, stored, tested, that the military
would buy. We saw, they bought mainly boneless beef, and we went through a facility that had
both boneless beef and pork. We went through a facility at Armours, they were putting up 660
hogs an hour. That’s completely [de]boned and in a box and I wouldn’t want to get in a knife
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fight with any of those people I saw working, man oh man. Cold, it was cold, they wear
[chain]mail gloves, their knives are just like razors. But they, I mean, you just saw a hog come
down through there that had already been killed, of course, all the hair taken off, eviscerated, and
here comes it, I mean you can just see it disintegrate.
Hedgpeth: Just an assembly line with these meat cutters?
Loftin: Off comes a ham, off comes a ham for ham hocks, off comes a loin, you know, here is
the ribs, here is the bacons, here is the head, you know. And you know, they had large chutes,
each individual had very large chutes, and as they took off a ham, skinned it, it went down the
chute. Same with the bacons, I mean they didn’t box them at the chutes, they were boxed later.
They had a machine, this was on the sheep, and the sheep were Kosher killed. They had a rabbi
and he did the slaughter. They would herd those sheep, who are not the brightest animal in the
world, into a corner would be a loop that would grab them the leg and up they’d go, someone
would slit their throat and they would be bleeding on the way, and then they would just take
them apart.
So we saw all kind of things like that. We went to the largest dairy in the United States.
They were still using glass bottles. We started where the old dirty bottles came in and there was
everything in those bottles you could possibly think of, mice, trash, cigarette butts, you know
everything you could think of and they would go through the cleaning process. Then it shows the
pasteurization of the bottling. That was fascinating. We went to a chicken plant in Iowa, where
they were putting up canned chickens for the military and, that was interesting, to see the
feathers taken off. They had them hanging up, they used an electric knife and they would grab
the head and with the electric knife, they would hit them in the throat to cut it but it would also
electrocute them, or stunned them. Then they went down through a vat of hot water, this was an
assembly line process. They would come up on the other side and they go through a deal, a lot of
soft rubber fingers, spinning, and it would just clean the feathers off it, off that bird completely
and then they would go in and kind of wash it again and eviscerated. And all during this time, at
certain points like when they were eviscerated there was a Veterinarian and he was checking all
the eviscerous [eviscerated chickens] to see if there were any diseases, any sign of diseases, also
checked the outside of the carcasses for skin cancer, that type of thing, if it on a wing they would
cut the wing off, throw it away. Until they went into a room and they were cooked, came out,
they stuffed them in a can, put on a lid and that’s that. Never had chicken much since.
Hedgpeth: How long was that process? I mean time wise, from the time that theyLoftin: Oh, until it was killed and until it was in the can? Well, they cooked them in the can
anyway, probably eight, ten minutes from one end to the other, and the chickens were probably
no more than 18 inches apart. That was a Kraft, of course, Kraft was the big cheese, that doesn’t
sound right, the big cheese.
Hedgpeth: But they were-
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Loftin: Their largest plant, both manufacturing and storage, was in Chicago and we got an
enlightenment going through that plant. I love cheese, but some of the cheese was manufactured
in Wisconsin, maybe independents, putting up cheese, we got what they called wheels which
were about 32 pound wheels and they were already covered with the cheese cloths and then wax.
But you get a little instrument, which is half a cylinder and a pointed end, and you run that down
in the cheese then pull it out and you’ve got a plug, and you take a bit of that, just take it off and
put it on your tongue, roll it around a little bit, you get the taste, spit it out, put the plug back in
and then you go to the next one.
Well they always had one out where the old cow had been eating wild onions and boy
[chuckles] that would do it. The interesting thing is that all of these sort of these rejected cheeses,
those that the Army or the Military didn’t want and commercial outfits didn’t want them because
of the taste, they skin all the wax and stuff off, put in a big vat and melt it down and this would
become processed cheese, and they would put them out in little boxes.
Hedgpeth: No more cheese slices for me!
Loftin: It is still good cheese, it’s just that the flavor is not quite what they want and you blend it
all together, you know; makes no difference.
But all kinds of schools, I mean plants, ice cream, anything that the military going to buy,
we got to go to their plant. And we were tested, I remember we came out after we had been over
to a beef slaughter, the boning, we go in and here is a refrigerated table with all the pieces of a
cow, boneless, sitting there. So we each had a piece of paper and pencil and we had to go through
and identify them all. Well, I had animal anatomy so this really wasn’t much of a chore but some
of those poor guys, I said look at that doesn’t even look like meat [laughs]. Anyway, we there 12
weeks and we graduated and it wasn’t tough at all. You know, we had guys in there, high school
graduates and but I graduated first in the class and another guy in the Air Force graduated second
and the other one [third Air Force personal] graduated third, but of course we all had bachelor
degrees in the life sciences.
So anyway, I got back to Tinker’s field, I was married by then, and doing my regular
duties, things would come in and get eggs by the carloads. There weren’t many military on
Tinker’s Field because it was one of the Air Material Commands Centers for refurbishing used
jet engines and there were thirty some thousand civilians but they all ate on base, at least one
meal. And it was a twenty-four operation so there were a lot of food went through there but we
would get eggs by the semi-load and they had taught us a statistical way to approach a train load
of eggs, how to inspect them. Which ones to select and what have you. So that was always
interesting to candle those eggs and make a determination, I was a Corporal by then, so I made,
the wife and I together, probably made $125.00 a month and a car load of eggs would be kind of
expensive to try to pay off. But we could also get refrigerated trucks, semis full of beef, sides of
beef, both hind and forequarters and we were to inspect those. They come in with milk by the,
this was all milk and dairy products, come in – a carload of that and we would take samples. The
vendor was on Federal contract and they were actually out of Oklahoma City, but we would take
samples to make sure that what they were contracted to do, they were actually doing. So we
would run butterfat contents and pasteurization and all that type of stuff and that was interesting
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in that a small dairy in Oklahoma City wanted a contract bad so they came in with a pretty low
bid. Well we had to inspect each plant and a buddy of mine and I went to Oklahoma City, to
inspect the facility, we inspect them once a week and we found for instance some of their piping
when you heat milk, the organic chemicals in milk will tend to bake on to the lining, that’s all
stainless steel stuff, but it will bake on the linings so you have to go swab those out. It is called
milkstone and we found milk stone, we found this that and the other and we were going to write
them up and give them a copy, so they would know what was going on, go back out and turn in
your reports to the staff. And I inspected the plant, I think maybe five times in five weeks and
finally, they said they were not doing what they were contracted to do. We found some e-coli in
some of the samples that we would run, so they took the contract away from them. and that was a
bad deal for them because the Federal regulations said on this contract that if they cannot meet
their contract they will, the government, will release them from supplying but they will then go
to another supplier, they must pay the difference between from what they were contracted to
receive and what they are charging and they were bankrupt within a short period of time because
we would get in one day we would probably get four or five refrigerator trucks full of dairy
products so they didn’t last very long after that. But, I got a letter from the Command
Veterinarian at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base. He was the big cheese in the veterinarian he
was Bird Colonel (slang for Full Colonel, above lieutenant colonel below Brigadier General
source: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/colonel.) A nice letter, he said “I am
wondering whether,” he said “we are starting this new school in Alabama for veterinary techs
and I am wondering if whether or not you would like to become an instructor.” Well I kinda
stuck it in my pocket and oh two weeks later my commanding officer, Major, said “Did you get a
letter from the Commanding Veterinarian”? I said “Yeah”. “What did it say”? I said, “Well they
are starting that school down there and he kinda wondered if I would kind like to go down
there”. He said, “You accepted that as sort of a, are you interested?” I said, “Yes, sir”. He said,
“That’s not what it says, what is says is you are going. You write him a letter and tell him you
couldn’t wait to get out of here”. So anyway I wrote him a letter and said I would be glad to go
but I got orders to go then about oh, within a week and a half, and wife and I drove down. It was
a brand new school. I think they had only run maybe two classes through so far. And the base
itself was a school of Aviation Medicine, Junior, they called it. The school of Aviation Medicine
was really at Kelly Field at San Antonio but that was mainly for like physicians and flight
surgeons and that type of stuff.
Hedgpeth: Was this Maxwell Airforce Base?
Loftin: No this was not Maxwell but Gunner,
Hedgpeth: Oh Gunner.
Loftin: Completely across town so from Maxwell. And we had guys who had come in the Air
Force out of the Army and had been Veterinary Techs in the army. Interesting group of people
and most of them were Master and Tech Sergeants. At that time I was Buck Sergeant, three
striper and they were having problems, the Air Force schools had a testing service where they
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used the, everything had to be multiple choice and had the regular sheets where you just marked
a little hash mark and these were sent, machine graded and analyzed and then sent back to, every
question was analyzed, as to who passed it who flunked it, which answers did they give, right or
wrong, you know, they were like “oh it was sent back.” Well I was the only one that had any
training in education, I mean, the discipline of education so I wound up going over all those
questions when they came back. We had eight or nine instructors, four of them officers, all
Veterinarians, and the rest Veterinarian Techs. When we get back these things, we’d look and see
“here is a question that not many people answered right.” We would analyze, or I did, and I
would then re-write those questions and then we would try them again. So I did that and our
courses were eight weeks long and part of my job was to, before the students got there, to give an
hour by hour course instructor equipment in audio visual, that kind of stuff. We went eight hours
a day for eight weeks until they got that whole program on a chart and we just had to think where
we slipped them in, just a little slip of paper with all this information on it and you get things
done, and that is out of sequence, “where does this go?” you know. And it run you crazy trying to
make sure you covered everything, all the instructors, you know, where being utilized in their
area, and so forth, so that was one of my jobs. We would get veterinarians, actually we had
veterinarians come through, we had, these were new people, never been in the service before.
They were drafted basically, flight surgeons, nurses, what have you. None of them had ever been
in the military before. Well one of my jobs was to take the veterinary officers and tell them how
to dress. They had no idea, when they were notified they were being drafted in, all these clothing
equipment companies would get lists and they sent them all this information about uniforms, so
they would buy them while they were home. They would come down there, they were terrible,
comic, but anyway I had to show them how to dress and why. Where all the insignias, and what
have you, how to salute and who to salute, you know. It was fun. [laughs] I remember we had a
flight surgeons come through one time and I don’t know why I wound up teaching the
refrigeration. Of course, flight surgeon in charge of the hospital, they are the number one officer
in the hospital but I had to teach them refrigeration, but anyway I noticed every flight surgeon I
saw come through there had very large hands and I asked one day, I said “You know you go to
the movies and you see this, you know this flight surgeon, his hands are like a pianists you know,
I said, “You guys look like hams”. He said, “Well let me put it this way, I probably pinch off
more tissue than I cut”.
Hedgpeth: Yeah.
Loftin: They do, you know and seeing like that and it’s safer, to get a scalpel in there. Anyway
I’m getting off the subject. I was there two, well almost three years, and had some interesting
times. The old man called me in, Colonel Hubbard, the head Veterinarian. I had about a year to
go, maybe 14 months to go, before I got a discharge and he said “Loftin, are you going to
re-enlist”? and I said “No sir”. He said, “You’ll never get another stripe”. Well I had made up
my mind when I had enlisted that I wanted to get out as a Master Sergeant, all six stripes. I had
all the qualifications in my MOS with an 8 0, so that is what it took to qualify. He said “You’re
not going to get anymore”. And I didn’t.
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Hedgpeth: Well were you a Tech Sgt. by then or.
Loftin: Staff
Hedgpeth: Staff, okay
Loftin: And a so, anyway, I had made up my mind I wanted to get my Master’s when I got out, I
wasn’t going back to OU. But, my wife had attended OU and she said it was one of the finest
schools. People were friendly, helpful, kind, considerate, all the other type of things, so I applied
and I was accepted before I got out and woops
[Tape recorder clicks stop]
Hedgpeth: Perfect stop, perfect. We’ll just switch this over, would you like some water or
anything since wereLoftin: Well if you have some around, sounds pretty good. I’m getting a little dry.
Hedgpeth: Let me go ahead.
Loftin: Am I giving you what you want?
Hedgpeth: You’re doing great, I’m going sto[Audio file part one stops]
Hedgpeth: Okay, you were talking about going to OSU,
Loftin: Yeah, we packed up our, the air force moved us, we didn’t have anything. The air force
moved us up and the wife had a distant relative that worked in the library at OSU and they had
finagled us some housing. The married student housing per se was full, new stuff, but they had
some old World War II barracks, they were full, but there was one Quonset hut, it was a double,
it looked like a tent made out of ply wood and two of these were put together and that was the
only one left and we got it. It had not been used in years and I go out to see what we need and
where they could put the furniture. The door was open and a dog had gone in and done his duty
in the kitchen, there were no appliances. Well there was a gas stove. It was heated by two open
flame gas stoves one at each end and the wife was not overly happy with this but I said, we gotta
live somewhere, I’m enrolled so suck it up. But anyway we had two kids with us, both were born
at Maxwell Field and so I got some fencing, built a fence around the place so we could keep
them in one place. But anyway, I go down, I had decided, I wanted, if you’re going to make any
money, and I had been doing administrative stuff at school of Aviation Medicine so I decided to
get my masters in school administration. So I enrolled, like most GI’s coming back, was scared
to death, figured, I’m this old guy, these kids are going to plow me under. But that was not the
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case. I met several very good people, my adviser, I don’t know how this works out but the Dean
of School Education wound up as my adviser and Elmer Sorrenson, he was a good one though.
And Dr. Richardson taught administration. It was a good place. Dr. Richardson was an
interesting little guy. His real major interest in life was the meaning of words and their origin. I
worked in his office that was one way I made a living was working in the office. The other one
was that I opened the library at 7:00 o’clock in the morning and all I did was open one door,
people could come in and go but I checked all the baggage’s that came in and as they left and I
made 75¢ an hour. So I worked two hours there and made a buck and a half but that was a big
buck and a half, but, I found that although I got my Master’s in school administration, was not
satisfied. When I got my degree, I was offered a job as principal of a junior high school in a town
pretty close to Stillwater. But a junior high, compared to me, would be the last place in the world
that you would want to work. I really wanted to teach. So I made application, I wanted to stay in
Oklahoma, since I was an “Okie”, I applied for only four teaching jobs. One at Ardmore, which
is close to where I was born in Enid, which had a real good school system. Bartlesville which
had an excellent school system and Ponca City which is in the northern part of the state, was the
only independent school district in Oklahoma at that time, in other words, they could finance
their own and they were not on State Aid, they were under State control. I don’t know why, I
never did hear from Ardmore, Enid or Bartlesville but I got a letter from Ponca City, said they
had an opening and would like to interview. So I drive up and went, I go up to the principal’s
office, Mr. Anderson, who by the way was probably one of the finest administrators I ever
worked under. He was kind and considerate but also very demanding. He’d do it the right way.
He visited with me awhile, probably a couple hours, got to be noon, he said I’ve got to go to
Rotary Club so I’m going to take you down to the cafeteria, you can get lunch, he said, “I’ll tell
them not to charge you”, and you can go into faculty lounge and you can meet people in the
faculty lounge and have your lunch. So, he takes me down, introduces me to the head cook, who
became a good friend of mine, but anyway, he said, go through the line, there is coffee there and
so forth, and visit with people. I go through the line, go in the teacher’s lounge. I am a little
apprehensive, here is all these educated people, so I sat my plate down, go over to get a cup of
coffee. Now I was still wearing air force shoes, air force shirt, air force tie, air force pants, but I
did have another coat and a different tie, but anyway, I go over to get a cup of and a guy saddles
up besides me and he says, where did you get that outfit anyway, the glass house, which was a
place where people go to pick up used clothing and I looked at this guy, but anyway, he was
standing beside me and we got to visiting. We became fast friends and it was Sinclair Orendorff
[spelling] who wound up president. While he was here, as Dean of Students and he went from
here to Powell as President. We became fast friends, he taught physics and math, was also, they
allowed each school to have someone to take care of the books where miscellaneous money,
student funds and those kind of things. The person I took the place of, a woman, she couldn’t
have received any higher laurels from anywhere, she must have been a crackerjack teacher. That
scared me. We had one other biology teacher. Bob Ingersoll, he is probably one of the few
Master teachers I would have had the privilege of working with. He was a Master teacher. He
taught me an awful lot about teaching, but anyway we got started and I was in an old room in
which they had six seats. They were cast iron bottoms, cast iron legs on the desk, all fixed, the
seats willowed and the top lifted for storage, well no one probably, since they were installed,
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ever decided to lubricate the seats where they spun and they would squeak. Well you can get the
picture. Someone wanted to twist, they would twist and they would squeak, squeak, squeak. So I
had the superintendent’s daughter in my class, spoiled brat, she liked to squeak those things, well
anyway, one Saturday I got some oil, pulled all those seats out and oiled them and put them back
in. Well she happened to get a little oil on her skirt. I thought I had them cleaned but anyway, I
got a visit from the superintendent, he comes up and wanted to know what’s going on, where did
that oil come from. So I explained it all to him. Well he wasn’t happy but he could understand
why I had done.
I had an interesting year trying to decide what in those books, the State furnished the
books, the State selected the books, to decide what in there I wanted to make sure I covered in
what sequence and what have you. So anyway, I think I had a pretty good year. Bob helped me
very much. He had been teaching, probably by then, about 10 years. He was a World War II
veteran. We both had work rooms behind, prep rooms, and got to where all the sciences teachers
wound up in the back of Bob’s room after school and we would do all kinds of discussions on
science, life and teaching. I might add that I signed a contract for $3400 for nine months. They
paid me $100 extra on my contract, a $100 extra because I was head of household.
Hedgpeth: What is thaLoftin: Of family.
Hedgpeth: Oh, I got gotcha.
Loftin: They didn’t do that for women. I had a good friend that taught English, she was a single
mother and I said, this is sorta an odd deal, I told her and she said “Well they don’t do that for
women.” But $100, you know doesn’t sound like much but at the time it bought a lot of
groceries, but by then I had, my daughter was born, third child, and so I go back to OSU during
the summer. First of all, I had not sent to out of state in Oklahoma to get your teaching
certificate. All teachers had to have credit in Oklahoma history. Well I was born in Oklahoma.
But I had to go take a course, well I decided to take by correspondence. But I then went to OSU,
I had to take this teacher’s certification came from the Universities. Not from a State office,
which counts for, at the State Universities and State Colleges so I go visit this guy and tell him
I’ve gotta get my, I had a temporary, had to get a permanent certificate. So he goes over
everything and he says, “You need to take physics.” “Physics”? I had, I don’t know how I wound
up with one course in physics on my Bachelor’s, “You know you got have physics”? I didn’t
know I had one quarter of physics. I said, “Well why would I want to do that”? “Well you may
want to teach it”. I said, “You telling me you let people, you certify people to teach physics with
only one year of physics”? “Well these smaller schools, you know, it works out”. Well anyway, I
took two semesters of physics that summer and was getting my Oklahoma History out of the
way, but anyway I decided that I was going to get my Doctorate in the School of Administration,
so I started that program every summer. It got to be that I would teach nine months, I would go
to OSU for 2-1/2 months and then grab the family and go to Rocky Mountain National Park for
vacation and then come back and start teaching again. That went on for quite a while.
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Hedgpeth: When did you start teaching, what year was that and how long.
Loftin: Let’s see that was in nineteen ----started teaching in ‘55, September of ’55. Anyway
about the third summer, I was taking courses that I had to take a course in, there was exact time
limit, basically, song and dance for elementary students. Here I was in this class with
kindergarten teachers, elementary teachers and I hate dancing, I’m a Southern Baptist and
dancing is a sin and I’m not supposed to do that. I am uncoordinated anyway, well, when I
finished that class, I decided this is not for me. So I talked to my Ed. advisor, I said, you know
this is not satisfying. If I’m going to do this, I want to take what I want and that’s the sciences, so
I said, “you have any recommendations for an advisor in zoology?” He said, “Yes, Dr. Jones
Head of Zoo. So I go over to talk to him. He was an interesting guy. He had taught elementary
school, Jr. High, High, Jr. College, Senior College and University. So, he had been all over the
place but he had common sense, he had been there. I told him I wanted to change major and I
wanted to go into zoology and I’d like to have him as my advisor. Well he was also the advisor of
my good friend, who was teaching with me at Ponca City. Bob was doing his Master’s and had
started his PHD, so Dr. Jones said, “yeah, okay,” he said, “pick a committee and get one from
education.
Well I picked Genesis and of course Dr. Jones was a geneticist and another guy was a
physiologist and a guy from education, who was basically, taught curriculum so Dr. Jones says,
“I want you to meet the committee.” So he got them together in a couple weeks, I go in, he said
“I want you to tell this committee what you want to do eventually, what’s your ultimate goal.” I
said, “I would like to teach in a small college.”
[Dr. Jones speaking] “Okay, go outside”. So I went outside and I hear them in there,
Yabba, Yabba, Yabba. Pretty soon, I guess it was probably an hour, I come back in, he hands me
a sheet of paper and said, “That’s what you are going to take.” So I look it over, it looked pretty
good. I said, “You got Philosophy down here, do I have to take that?”
[Dr. Jones] “Yeah.”
I said, “What if I don’t want to and I won’t sign it?” That sounded familiar, he said “I
want you to get under this instructor, he is tremendous.” Well anyway I started with the program
and I could only go into science and a so I got about two summers under my belt. And so this
geneticist was a real character. He was kinda like Wally Cox, only without glasses and very
bright. He had study genetics under Theodoris Doubansaci [spelling?] at that time, he was at the
University of Texas. He was the world’s authority in Drosophila genetics. Drosophila is a little fruit
fly. And he comes from, got his PHD under Doubansaci [?] and they came to OSU.
I’m getting way ahead of myself, but anyway when, I’ll just throw this in example since I
am talking about him. I met with the committee and went over my thesis and they wanted, by
that time the curriculum guy had retired and was off my committee and I picked up Dr. Jones’
given PHD over so I did, “big drama.” He said “It will help him, he has got to have a committee
work and he will learn something and he may have some new ideas.” So anyway, we were
meeting with that committee and this guy had that “I suffered and you’re going to too.” And he
was asking all kind of questions about all the problems that I gonna serve, this that and another
and he said, “Why do you want a Doctorate?” I kind of fumbled around, I guess I satisfied him,
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anyway we headed back to the old building and I was walking with this Geneticist and he said
“You missed a perfect opportunity here to give him a correct answer to that question “Why do
you want a Doctorate?” And I said, “Well what should I have said?” He said, “Get out of here.”
[laughs] I said, “I am not sure he would have expected it”
But, they had me written down for a good array of courses. One of the toughest I took
was Comparative Animal Physiology. This was physiology of all animals. One of the most
fascinating courses, one of the most helpful courses I’ve had. When you join- when you get into
where a river is running into the ocean, you have all these different environments. How do they
cope? Who copes? That’s just one example but course that matters. I had a course in Ecology
from an interesting fellow. He was not liked because he had more research events than all the rest
of them put together. They had dammed the Arkansas River, just outside of Tulsa, and they built
it so they would unload from the bottom, not over the top, so they were getting all the bottom
sediments. One of the big tributaries outside of Tulsa, to the Arkansas River is the Salt River,
well salt water does not mix easily with fresh water, and it’s heavy, it would settle out in the
bottom. So you had all this organic material coming down, settling out in this layer of salt water
and aerobic bacteria would go to work on it and you would wind up with an awful lot of sulfursulfur gas.
When they bottom loaded it, I’m getting into things I’m sure you’re not interested in at
all but, large big houses were being built along the river by the dam. There was going to be a big
lake behind it and so forth. Well when they dumped that water, it smelled like rotten eggs. That
created a problem. You don’t tear down a dam and start over. Well anyway, he had a lot of
research money and people were very jealous of him and he became terribly independent. Of
course Research and Development loved it because he was bringing in a lot of money for them
too. But his course was extremely interesting. It was basically all lab and field trips. I had a
question one time, it is interesting, I usually I had an assistant [to the Ecology Professor] I had in
class in high school (that he had taught?) And he [the assistant] had his masters and start for
Doctorate. And I said, “I need to see old Doc.”
[Assistant] “Well he’s not here right now.”
I said, “Here’s my question for him.”
[Assistant] “No, you’re going to have to ask him.”
I said, “When will he be back”?
[Assistant] “Well”, he said, “I hate to tell you this, but he goes home every afternoon and
watches Batman and Robin”. But pretty soon he shows up and I ask my question, it’s satisfied.
But he was a character, he was a real character, but he was a teacher and a darned good
researcher. The philosophy [course], the guy that taught it, PHD, he was a Presbyterian Minister.
PHD in Philosophy. He looked like Ichabod Crane. Real thick glasses, tall, gangly, didn’t know
how to dress properly. Had an interesting voice, sort of a deep, guttural type voice. He had ways
of teaching that helped me. He was so fascinating and I loved that so much that after I finished
that course, I enrolled in the next one.
Hedgpeth: And this is the philosophy, you were like, “I’m not taking this.”
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Loftin: Yeah “I don’t want this stuff.” I remember he was talking about doing things because you
know what you are doing, you understand it, the principal behind it, and doing things because
they work. He said, “Picture yourself in this old medieval castle. They see the Celts coming, and
so they prepare. Their boiling oil, getting oil up there, gathering big rocks, getting their weapons
all sharpened and what have you.” And he said “Here they come with their ladders, they put
these ladders up there,” said, “a guy picks up this rock, drops it on a guys head.” He said “He
didn’t understand anything about gravity.” I mean zap.
Hedgpeth: No, but they knew it worked.
Loftin: It worked but they didn’t understand gravity. But – he had those kind of illustrations for
various philosophical tenets that he wanted to really stick. We did a lot in educational
philosophy. Reden and Riot [?] and the Catholic philosophers. Various branches of educational
philosophy and we covered. Very fascinating. But the program was pretty tough because I was
trying to get that done, I was trying to teach, I was trying to raise a family, make a living. So I
went through with the same tooth. While I was teaching in high school up there, I was head of
the science department, Bob left to go get his Doctorate and they hired a young woman who had
her master’s in Zoo [Zoology] and we also had a woman who had been there for years and she
was an English teacher, but she was teaching biology. She got all the kids who weren’t going to
do anything anyway basically. And she helped them, I mean, wasn’t so much biology as it was
life. But anyway, I was called to the principal’s office, another phone call, another phone call and
the principal says the Board of Trustees are meeting tonight and they would like you to be there.
And I said to Mr. Anderson, I said “This doesn’t sound good.” He said, “Just give them the way
you feel about her.” Well the board, there were two John Burchers on the board, one was a
physician and one worked in the oil patch somewhere and the chairman of the board was an
undertaker, a very respected man in the community, been on the board for a hundred years, so
they physician said, “I would like to conduct the meeting.” The president of the board said,
“Okay.” I had noticed that there were three other visitors, one was a physician, one was a
minister and one was a psychiatrist. This physician, the one doing the interrogating, pulled out
some papers and said, “We’re upset with the way you are teaching sex, human reproduction.” I
said, “Well, what are you upset about?” I said, “The film we use is a, no humans in it, it is an
illustration, cartoon type thing, has been used for 17 years, no complaints from parents or
anything else up to this point.” Well he said, “Here is a sheet of terms.” On it one of the terms
was incest. Now this young woman, that was on her list, not mine, but I was responsible for it.
And I said, “Well sir, it does occur and we don’t dwell on it, but we think these young people
should know about incest and what it is and so forth.” He didn’t like it. He said, well we went on
to various other things he didn’t like and he said, “It’s my feeling that when we get to this touchy
subject that these students should make an appointment with their physician and he can explain it
to them.” He said, “isn’t that right,” he was talking to the physician, the other doctor that was
visiting, “Isn’t that right?” He had to be my family physician, and he said, “Well I don’t know
what your case load looks like but I don’t have time for this.” And he said, “Number two, these
people are trained to teach these things, you and I aren’t.”
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So he [physician on the board] goes on, he says, “You know this is warping these
people’s minds, I mean, all this stuff, they are hearing all this stuff, and it is warping their mind
and it is giving them bad thoughts.” And he said, “isn’t that right?” talking to the psychiatrist.
The psychiatrist said “Where they get warped is when they are hearing this stuff out behind the
barn, not what they are getting out of the classroom.” So he goes on he gets into the morality of
the whole thing, this just touches on immorality. So he asks the Presbyterian minister, Doctorate
in Theology, largest church in Ponca City. I had both of his kids in school, he said, “Well let me
put it this way, if you do away with this, my parishioners will demand that it be taught in our
church by him.”
So that was the end of the inquest and I go home, it was near the end of the year, and I
knew those guys weren’t going to give up. And teaching was not going to be fun anymore. I
talked to the wife and said, “I’m going to apply for a job, I’m getting out of here.” She didn’t
want to go. Her parents lived southern Oklahoma and she was very attached to her family but I
said, “I’ve got to get out of here.” So I started making application. The principal comes over, I’m
cleaning up the classroom after that, near the end of the school year so Mr. Anderson comes over
and he says “Lloyd, I want to nominate you as Science Teacher of the year, in the state of
Oklahoma. Do you mind”?
I said, “Mr. Anderson, if you are going to write a letter, write me a letter of
recommendation.” He said, “That’s what I figured.” I said, “I give up, I can’t take it.” He said, “I
know, okay.” So I had been to the place that had office at OSU and there was a teaching job in
Zoology at Ft. Lewis A & M, in southern Colorado, and I had written them and gotten some stuff
they wanted to know about me and I was looking for letters of recommendation. Well Sinclair
Orendorff who had taught physics and math at Ponca City High School, was here [Casper
College] as Dean of Students.
Now I may back up and say that at Ponca City High School, before I got there was Tim
Aley. He taught History and Drama. Tim had a chance to go to University of Kansas and do his
Doctorate so he takes off [from Ponca City High School]. (Loftin backs up further to clarify)
Now he and Sinclair were roommates slept in the same bed at a little school in Kansas,
can’t think of it. They married two girls that were good friends. Tim gets a job teaching in Ponca
City, and the next year Sinclair gets a job teaching at Ponca City High School. Then Tim gets
this chance to do his Doctorate in Kansas so he takes off to do that. I come in to Ponca City High
School. Then Sinclair leaves there to start his Doctorate and Tim was in Colorado in a college as
assistant to the President and when they decided, he’d be the president here, they had been
Dean’s up to that point, to be president. They interviewed Tim and hired him. Sinclair was
working on his doctorate, Tim wants some help and so he calls Sinclair and said, “I want you to
come here as Dean of Students.” Sinclair says, “I’ll never get my Doctorate”. He said, “I’ll
make sure you get time off later, come help me.” So Sinclair comes.
So, I’m looking for a letter of recommendation and I’ve heard he has come here so I
thought, “Well, Dean of Students would look pretty good on a letter of resume.” So, I wrote
Sinclair and I said, “Sinclair, I’m going to apply for this job; I’m leaving Ponca High School. I
want to apply for this job at Ft. Lewis A&M. Would you write me a letter of recommendation?” I
waited and waited and pretty soon, here comes a little envelope, two sheets of note paper, line
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note paper, starts out “Dear Lloyd, I understand that you are applying for this job at Ft. Lewis A.
& M, and he goes on and he gets to the bottom of the sheet and it says, “Hell no”.
Here was my good buddy turning me down on something, I flipped it over and it says,
“We’ve got an opening contract under separate cover.” [laughs] Ahh Shoot. So anyway, I get a
contract to come here so I don’t have to apply anywhere. Never been in Wyoming in my life.
Hedgpeth: How old are you at this time?
Loftin: Let’s see how old was I? That was in what, ’63. So, let’s see, I’ll have to do my math
here, that would have been 33. So I come here [Casper College] and I was to teach zoology and
microbiology. I’m in summer school and Tim told him, “Make sure he takes a refresher course in
Microbiology.” So I did, so I come out in the old science building, Saunder’s science, and first
class I’m at, was college in freshman and he was in it. In Mike auditorium, 128 people in there.
So we take off on that and I have in Microbiology, I have three nurses, three nursing students.
That’s all. Now they didn’t have an incubator, they had a sterilizer but didn’t have an incubator.
Didn’t have much of anything. So I go down to Sears Roebuck and ask them if they have any old
or used refrigerator that they want to get rid of and they said “Yeah, but you’ll have to haul it
off,” so I did. Took out the motor and compressor and everything and threw that away. Also went
and got a thermostat for a chicken incubator for where they raise little and hatch them. So I hook
that up inside where the light bulb and that was my incubator. And it worked, worked pretty well.
Three nursing students, they were good students. This was under the old UW, what did they call
it, three one plan or whatever it was, they went two or three years, two years I guess, and one
year at the university. The Two One Plan. They had to finish at the University.
When
I had my heart surgery, I was going down the elevator one day and a nurse got on, “oh Dr. Lofin,
how are you doing?” It was one of those gals that I had in that first class at Casper. One of the
things that happened, we were in class, lecture class of course they put three of us, I mean four of
us in there, and we heard all kinds of noise, and a kid who I had in class opened the door, came
in and said, “They just shot the President.” It was the assassination of Kennedy. Said “he was in
the hospital, may live, may not”, and he took off. I said “Ladies, class dismissed, we are going
to war.” So we all made a head for TV. Those girls did very well. I hadn’t taught microbiology
before and they took their State Boards the next year and I saw one of them and I said, “How
were the Boards?”
“Tough, they were tough,” She said, “All three of us agreed the easiest part of it was
microbiology.” So I felt pretty good about that. These classes, we were growing rapidly, very
rapidly. I had at least two classes at Mike Auditorium, it was full. And then the lab would only
hold twenty or thirty I think, so Sinclair said “We gotta have more lab space.”
And I said, “Well there are more hours in the day.” And he said, “Would you take
additional lab?” I said “Sure,” I said, “I think I’m stealing now.” When I taught in high school, I
was teaching six hours a day, thirty five students to a class, five days a week. I said, “Here I
teach, Monday, Wednesday and Friday,” and I said, “What’s the matter with Tuesday and
Thursday?” We added labs, what have you. I didn’t see anything wrong with it, they were
amazed. Not used to working, you know, sitting around bothering me. But anyway, we made it
through that year pretty good. Not Paul. I knew Paul wasn’t going to be a zoologist but he was a
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good student, and a gentleman. He was custodian over here at Admin Building. He was Paul,
then and now.
Well anyway we finished that first year and getting ready for the second year. They hired
me to help with enrollment during the summer and getting ready for the second year, Tim said
“Well FEDS were just coming in to Scholarships and/or Loans and that type thing, and Federal
Money, and scholarships were picking up, and Tim said, this was early “I want you to come in
and straighten out the scholarship program, make applications for Federal Money, this type of
stuff and I said “Well that is pretty busy,” and he said “We’ll hire a zoologist, you keep teaching
micro and we’ll hire somebody to take care of the zoology.”
So that is how I got into the administrative bit and the scholarships stuff was a mess.
The registrar was a sweet little old woman but she wasn’t overly organized. She took care of
student records fine but when it came to scholarships, she would issue them whether anyone paid
money to do it or not, you know. So I got that kinda straightened out and Sinclair, this was the
third year that Sinclair said “I’m going to get my Doctorate I am going to do the course work.”
Tim said, “We’ll work it out.” So he called me in and said “We’re going to make you Dean of
Students while Sinclair goes and gets his Coursework.”
I said “Tim, we’re going to do that but I am also in my Doctor program. I will then want
some time off to go get my residency and what have you.”
[Tim] “Okay.”
So I became Dean of Students. Marie Stewart was the Assistant Dean, good woman. And
that was a new experience, being Dean of Students. I had a good friend that was Dean of
Students sometime later then, Brakey, and I said he had taught physics and I said, “How is this
working out”, he said, “Well you know, when I was teaching physics, I thought students
magically appeared about 10:00 Monday morning and they vanished about 2:00 in the afternoon
and then Friday they completely vanished.” And he said, “They are just waking up on Friday,
they are just getting warmed up, which was a good way to explain it.” We had our faculty, we
needed more people, we were having so many problems, but students, we would have dances
every Saturday night in then the cafeteria in the old administration building. And at the
beginning of the year faculty were assigned a certain weekend to work wherever student
activities were taking place. It was just a part of their job. The Dean of Students was at
everything.
Hedgpeth: Okay we’ve hit tape one.
Loftin: Do you want to give up on this.
Hedgpeth: I’ve got another tape, but I see Miss Jackie Ellis out there. Do you want to take just
a little bit of a break. We are in your Dean of Students right now.
Loftin: Well whatever, it is up to you.
Hedgpeth: Or we could continue on. I just needLoftin: ---my wife says I talk too much anyway
Hedgpeth: You know what; I wish I had more people open up. Sometimes it’s like pulling
teeth, yes sir, you are just flowing, I don’t have to ask any of my questions, growing up, and
you’ve told me. I mean I haven’t had to ask you anything, what prompted you to become a
scientist, or a life science teacher, or why Casper College, described your career progression.
You’re do it. I don’t have to ask you anything, I mean here I am a Dean of Students. We’re doing
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good. Yes sir, wonderful. And the questions I really have on the second page are mostly topical
questions about your presidency, so I’ll wait and see when we come to that. Tape one side one.
Works better if I do it right now so I don’t get them confused. And I’ll- I am just go ahead and
turn this off this really quickly.
[Audio file part two stops]
Hedgpeth: There we go on that, all right Dr. Loftin, you were talking about your position as
Dean of Students.
Loftin: We didn’t have any dormitories, which made life doubly interesting for Dean of
Students. Tim, since we had so many students being housed out in the community, he felt a bit of
responsibility to control student activities, or attitudes or actions, even though they were in a
commercial or private situation. Lot of people took kids in, private homes. They would eat up
here, we had a cafeteria, they could eat up here but as far as sleeping and studying facilities, we
didn’t have a library. The old, where the business office just was, was the library where, who’s
over there now? Social studies, I think. I don’t know what you call them anymore but that was
the old cafeteria. When I got here, the administration building was “U” shaped building, the east
end; two story of the east end was not there. The Saunders science was about like it was then.
The Mike Auditorium and the art deal had just been put on the end of that building and the old
auto shop was, it’s down now, but it was just south of the Saunders’s Science. The entrance to the
College, well where the street coming into the College from the East was a large drainage ditch,
about oh probably about 18-20 feet wide and 10-12 feet deep, open. Had reeds, tumbleweeds and
everything. The auto shop, set right on the edge of that thing. It curved around there and goes
right down between Bailey and Morad Halls, that roadway is actually sitting on a drainage
vehicle. We put large flagstone to cover them up.
We, as Dean of Students, we had to or Tim wanted us to, make sure that everything was
going well in the community between the Students who were living off campus and that took
quite a bit of time and I said, dances, other activities, plays. The part of their job was to help
chaperone students at various activities. I was Dean of Students, we actually kinda went into an
old pattern, I took care of the boys and Marie Stewart took care of the girls pretty well. I got to
know the policeman, the police department by first name and we started a law enforcement
program so they were all up here in shifts and we got to know them up here as well as I knew
them down there. Tim told me, “Sinclair has taken a job at Powell as President.” Well I said,
“Okay, now what do we do?” He promised me I could finish my course work and he said, “well
starting the summers, let’s start this summer and we see how it works.”
So every summer I would take off and go to Stillwater with the family and do my course
work, come back and they would absorb my job during the summer, at least a couple of months.
But, as we progressed out of that, Tim had a good friend, he had been in the service with, a [Art]
Trinum. And Art was in Germany, with his wife, still in the military and Tim wanted me to
become Dean of Faculty and he wanted someone to take over as Dean of Students so he called
Art Trinum in Germany and said, “We’ve got this opening and you are ready for retirement, why
don’t you come work for us?” Art said, “I’ll tell you later.”
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So a couple of weeks later, he called and he said, “I have been doing a little studying on
Wyoming,” he said, “The only time I hear about the weather is Pinedale.” And he said “I don’t
want to go out there if Pinedale is tutor for that.” But anyway, Art came and took over and then I
became the Dean of Faculty. We were growing so rapidly that local funding, most State and local
funding, just couldn’t handle the growth, the need for instructors, the need for space, and so
building a faculty and building buildings became a major task. Tim was always interested in
building. He loved planning and working with contractors and getting the money and watching
the buildings come up and all that and so he sorta let me handle the academics and he took care
of that. Before the foundation, we had a great a Board of Trustees, I mean a great board, one of
them was an attorney, Bill Brown, and Bill got this idea “let’s start a foundation.” He said, “there
is a lot of money around here and the pride in the college, it’s growing, I think it will work out
real well.” So, he and Tim went to work on that and developed that foundation. Besides working
with the faculty one of my other jobs, well I had to write proposals to the feds for federal money
for faculty. I remember one year, I don’t know which year it was, but one year we hired 27
people and most of them were subsidized to some degree on Federal Money. Of course we had to
find places to put those people. We closed in the only bond issue, in my tenor here. We built the
college center; we built the end on the south end[Audio part three ends]
Hedgpeth: [talks about the recorder] Okay the only bond issue that you had during your tenner?
Loftin: We built the College Center, we built the, put the end of the old administration building,
on the east end. Let’s see, the business building which is now the Alley – no Fine Arts Building.
Hedgpeth: I’ve got to make sure I pressed both of those next time, I don’t think I did, but I got it
here so we’re good.
Loftin: Let’s see, we put an extension on the old auto shop for agriculture. But there was also
private money come into the Foundation to finish these things off and add onto the Community
Life Science. That was an interesting deal, we had a guy, a banker, Bobby Miracle, and he knew
we needed another building. He would not serve on the Board, he said, “I could be more help to
you in the community than I can be on the Board.” So he came up and he told the Board, he said,
“I know you need a new Life Science Building, here’s what I want you to do, I want you to give
me permission, the authority to get one other person that I have complete confidence in and he
will get a person, he has complete confidence in and he will get- until we have about a dozen
people and we will go get you the money.” So Bobby gets them together and they meet with the
Board and off they go.
As an example, Bobby Miracle was a guy that, he was obsessed with getting a job done.
He goes to an attorney’s office and says “I want you to pledge money for this new building.”
And the guy says, “Yeah, I will.” And he turned around to his desk to go to work again and Bob
just sat there. The guy turned around and said, “I told you plain,” he said.
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“I changed my mind”. Bobby said, “I changed my mind, I want a check”. The guy said,
“I’ll get it to you.” Bob said, “I’m not moving.” I don’t know how long he sat there, a couple
hours, and finally he wrote him out a check. That’s the way they got the money together for the
community Life Science Building. The buildings here, we’ve been so fortunate to be in a
community that has such pride in an institution that they will give their money to see it grow and
have the facilities that they are going to need. But there is a reverse to that too, the institution has
to be good enough that they have pride in it. So it’s a two way street but I don’t know of any
institution, and I’ve traveled the North Central Area. I don’t know of any other institution in the
north central area, even some senior colleges, that has the support that this institution has in it’s
community.
Well anyway, I had better back up, as the campus was growing, of course our faculty was
growing, student body was growing and we were having to add programs. One that we got into
Exxon Corporation sent a team out from Tulsa to the University of Wyoming. They wanted them
to educate their employees to open a uranium mine and mill over north of Douglas. University
said, “Well we have engineering programs, or courses, they can take those courses.” Well that
isn’t what they wanted; they didn’t want them here for four years. They wanted them educated,
actually trained, not educated, trained, and to go in to do that work. So they came to us and
wanted to know if that was something we could do for them. And we structured a program
specifically for that – for the mining and the milling. Exxon wanted all their people to be able to
do every job. They wanted them trained so they could weld, they could run equipment, they
could do chemical testing, all this. And I told the guy from Tulsa, he was sorta a smart ass little
guy, pardon me, [laughs]. And he thought he knew a lot of what was going on, I am sure he was
a bright engineer. I told him right then, “You’re going to find that humans will find things that
they either do not want to do or they are afraid to do, and you are going to ask these people to do
everything.” We tried, we gave them a pretty good education and the other thing we did, we
wrote him out a curriculum. We asked him, “What do you want, what are your --- well anyway
we wrote out a curriculum and in it we included, Wyoming History, and one other, I can’t
remember what it was now but pressed with Wyoming and we sent it to him, he wrote back and
had it scratched out and he said “We don’t want any of that.”
We said, “You’re going to have people here that will come to work for you that are not
Wyomingites, not native, they are going into a community, they are going to be tearing things up,
they are going to be causing some problems for that community in housing and transportation,
and if they know a little bit about Wyoming and the people, a just a little bit about its history,
they will have a better feel for that community and they will fit in better.” Well he bought it and
we did that through the coal program and one of their pump guys wound up as mayor of Gillette.
But anyway, this program, it didn’t run too many years, bottom fell out of the uranium
prices, but they found, some of the guys were afraid of electricity and were afraid of welding and
so they had to find people who would do welding and these people would drive equipment or do
some other things so they found out we were pretty right in human nature and their education
and working. So that program didn’t last too long but then they came back on the coal field
technology program and we ran that for a good long time. Our faculty really sucked it up because
they were teaching 12 months out of the year. Working that program in the summer, doing their
regular teaching during the year.
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Hedgpeth: Now, were you still teaching at this time when you were Dean of Students or Dean of
Faculty?
Loftin: No – I taught only twice. Agriculture, Bill Henry whose head of Ag Department, Life
Science Department wanted me to teach genetics mainly to his Ag people, at night. This would
be over and above their regular, so I taught I think, two winters, one semester in the winter, I
taught genetics and that’s the only other teaching that I did. I just did basic school teacher. But
anyway, the programs were increasing, the needs, electronics, we started really expanding, which
was expensive, they were getting into miniature circuitry and the making the circuit boards, and
what have you. And we had a legislator that came to us and said, “We need truck drivers”. And
we said. “That isn’t really a collegiate program, collegiate level program, but we think we can
work it out. We’ll need some help from you.” So we bought trucks and got them started in that
program which turned out to be a very good program. Put a lot of people to work. Heavy
equipment was another one. The industry really growing in the coal field technology and the oil
fields and construction and what have you, heavy equipment operators were in need, again, not a
collegiate program, but Tim being Tim, we also found that heavy equipment program, they could
be learning but they could also be helping the college in developing land for buildings and
roadways and what have you.
Hedgpeth: On the job training.
Loftin: Yeah it was, it really was, very good. And it did work well for the students, they went out
and went to good jobs, high paying jobs and also we were getting some very expensive stuff
done on campus that allowed us to develop the campus and still have that good program. So that
worked out pretty well. And of course, one of my jobs was to hire people and I think I was
awfully lucky finding good people. I’ll say this, I had no problem in hiring a former high school
teacher that had a master’s degree in their area. They knew how to teach school, most of them. If
they didn’t I didn’t hire them. I couldn’t hire people today. Someone said, “How do you know
who to hire?” I said, “My navel tells me.” I couldn’t write that down on a federal form and get it
accepted, but I had a feel for people that told me, “Yeah, I think they will work out okay.” Of
course I reviewed everything. I had a person hired one time, said “In our interview, you didn’t
ask me very many questions.” I said, “I asked you enough, I got you talking.” And I said, “You
told me everything I wanted to know and I didn’t have to ask.”
But, it’s a scary job, to me, to have someone come in, you don’t have any idea who they
are, don’t know anything about them. You’ve read transcripts, you’ve read letters and what have
you but you really don’t know that person and the personality, drive. To me is a bit scary but I
think I was lucky. Awfully good people.
Hedgpeth: Pretty good success rate?
Loftin: Very good, very good. They were inspired. I think, the dynamics of the community, the
dynamics of the college and it’s growing, expanding, building, students coming in, new people
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being hired. I think all that together really inspired people to do the best they could possibly do
in the classroom. Outside classrooms, in the community and I hope that’s still going. We got to
where we had to hire Dean of Student’s Counselors and relieve the faculty of student
responsibilities on weekends and so forth. I think we lost something in doing that both the
teacher and the student. But that became the province of the Student Personnel Division and we
had to get into security, were big enough, that we had to get into security. And, might tell a little
story here. We – Paul Dannigan, who was police chief, ready to retire, and we were around
discussing qualifications, there were two or other people that had applied and I had interviewed
him. Tim wanted him bad. Tram wanted him bad; of course they had both been policemen in the
service so.
Hedgpeth: Oh, I didn’t know
Loftin: They had a real warm sport for him, they wanted him and I was the only one that voted
against him. I said, he was known as a tough cop. I said, here we got kids up here, I don’t know
how he is going to relate, shift gears, come up here and work with students. Some of them you
know do stupid things, what have you. Well I was out voted. At the end of that year, there was a
line of kids all the way down the hall. Dannigan at that time was in the administration building,
right down south of the west corner or northwest corner, office, there were kids lined up all the
way down the hallway to come in and talk to him, thanking him for keeping them out of jail.
[phone rings]
Hedgpeth: yep, Okay. So a line of students down his hall.
Loftin: We couldn’t have found a better person to do this. He was tough I mean he was
demanding on students but he also knew kids do foolish things and he had kinda taken care of
stuff when they go to be picked up. He would go down there and kinda straighten things out. He
had other police that came to work for us, retired, so we had a pretty good security force. I think
we had about three people but they were all accomplished police and I think they had feelings for
young people. But, I’ve got off on my track.
Hedgpeth: Well can I ask you a question here? Between being Dean of Students and Dean of
Faculty, which do you think was more challenging and why?
Loftin: Most challenging, Dean of Students, as the b?????? you know when you’ve done your
weeks work, and they are just coming alive. You get calls all hours of the day and night. You’re
at the police station, you are at the hospital. I remember I got a call, we had dorms by then,
Bailey and Morad, got a call a girl had committed suicide or was going to commit suicide. She
had taken something. So I had to call security, haul her to emergency room, I meet you down
there. So we go down there, she happened to be the daughter of a physician, out of county, and
Doctor examined her and said, she didn’t take anything, she is faking it. I said, “Well what are
you going to do?” He said, “I’m going to swab her stomach out, she is going to remember this”.
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But you know we were lucky, didn’t have many serious problems. I do remember, we had a
situation, this is when I was still Dean of Students, had a call, said, this kid’s missing, two of
them are missing, one of them is a ball player. This was right before Christmas vacation and I
said, “Well, what do we know about them?” This one had a car, they were both from out of State,
so I got to inquiring around got a phone call from the dorm, said this one showed up over here.
So I called him to come over. He came over, he was a big hulk, and I was visiting with him a
little bit and I said, “You know where this other basketball player is?”
[Student] “Nope” and I, we talked a little bit, he slept and I picked up a clue and I said
“You just mentioned that you had him in the car, where did you go?”
[Student] “Scotsbluff.”
[Loftin] “What did you go to Scotsbluff for?”
[Student] “He wanted to fly out of there.”
[Loftin] “What, home?” He was from Michigan, Antrim? 9:49:40 Michigan. So I kept
talking to him, pretty one came in and said, “There was a robbery missing and maybe there were
some students involved in it.” So I got in on that, got a call from a Board Member that said,
“Someone broke into my office.” He was an attorney, “Someone broke into my office and they
thought it was a student.” This was all going on at the same time. So I had another call, that we
had a student who was working for a store downtown and a firearm was missing. Well all this
tied together eventually. I asked this kid I had in the office, I said, “Where were you last, what
were you guys doing?”
Well he finally said, “Well we wound up at the Avalon.” Well the Avalon had been
robbed and I said “Well who all was with you?”
[Student] “Well, this basketball player”. I said “Did you steal whiskey at the Avalon?”
[Student] “Oh no.”
I said, “Let’s go look at your car, I would like to see your car.”
He didn’t want to do it. We opened the trunk; there were probably six or seven bottles of
whiskey in that trunk. This goes on and on, we found the pistol that the kid said he had mailed it
but he had taken it himself. Before the guy, the attorney, got back to his office, we found his TV
set, yeah, that’s a hell of a job. It really is. At times it is great.
I remember I was asked to speak to the Honor Society and I said, “You know I really
don’t recognize any of you.” I said “I don’t see much of you folks,” but it is a very challenging
job but being faculty in many ways is equally, it’s not physically, as demanding as Dean of
Students because there you’re all kind of places. But [as Dean of Faculty] you are dealing with
adults, you are dealing with people who are educated, professional, they had their problems. I
had a Division Chairman come to me one time and said “I want that guy fired.”
I said, “Well give me some reasons.”
[Chairman] “I don’t like him,”
[Loftin] “Well I don’t either but what’s that got to do with it and it was a personality
conflict. And I said to her, I said, “If you are going to be Division Chair, you have to work with
these people,” I said, “I’m not asking you to like the guy, love the guy; I want you to be his
Division Chairman. If he has problems, work with him on them.”
I said, “You know there are a lot of people around here that I don’t like but I’m hired to
work with them. You are hired to work with him.” She came back a couple weeks later and said,
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“By God that works.” And I had another instructor come to me and want a guy fired, and I said
“You’ll give me some particulars here.”
[Instructor] “Well he is proselytizing for the Catholic church.”
I said, “Well tell me about it.” I’m getting into some personal stuff here, I won’t mention
names but I have to mention different ones. This person taught Western II. He taught philosophy.
He said he was proselytizing for the Catholic Church, he was Catholic, devote Catholic, devoted
Catholics, whatever it is.
And I said, “You don’t teach anything about the Catholic Church?” I said, “How in the world can
you teach Western Civilization and not get into all the influence the Catholic Church has had on
the Western Civilization? She just looked at me got up and left. Again, personalities.
You got to be a politician. I think you have to understand human nature; you have to
understand your people. I knew his religion because he was always telling me about it. That’s the
only person I really knew unless they went to my church. Knew their religion. I did not know
their politics; I did not want to know about their politics. But I wanted to know family, I wanted
to know their background, I wanted to know what they did on weekends so I could better
understand them as a human being.
It is challenging, the problems they would have, personal problems. They couldn’t
divorce it from their professional life. Events in the family, kids getting into trouble, divorces.
All the human things that happen in a person’s life. And they have to work with that and I had to
work with them. So they could keep teaching in school and do their job. I figured that was the
only thing I had been hired for, was to make sure people taught school and they did it right.
Firing people and just handling people in general. I had a guy come to me, he was
basically he head of custodial maintenance. He wanted this guy fired and I said well, I called
personnel and I said, “bring this guy’s folder down,” that he wanted fired and I looked it over and
I said “About a month ago you did an evaluation,” I said, “there is nothing under satisfactory,
nothing. Now you want him fired.”
[Custodial Maintenance] “Well.”
I said “His attorney would eat us alive.” Well we came in and tried to fire him, and had
this kind of [conversation], now I want him fired too, you know,” Well he did such things as he
went down to pick up checks, boxes of checks, they didn’t deliver them then, as a prank I mean,
boxes of them. He opened the tops of them, but he didn’t close them. Had them in the back of
the pick-up. He drove all the way down with those checks flying. They were to haul stuff for the
symphony, we furnished them with certain music instruments, that was an agreement we had
with them, certain instruments, but we would haul them down there. There happened to be a
couple of xylophones. He put them in the back of the pickup, didn’t tie them up, left the tailgate
down and drove right out from under them. Now this was deliberate. I knew it. But how do you
prove something like that? So anyway I told Bobby Walkenshaw was doing all the supervising,
buildings and the building program and we had a young fellow that was a carpenter and I had
real faith in and I said, “I want you guys to watch this guy,” I said “Don’t dog him, don’t let him
know you are” but I said “I want to know every time he breaths, I want it written down as to
time, who witnessed it, what he did, the whole bit.” We did that for a year and he handed me a
pack of stuff and I took it to our attorney and I said “What do you think Butch?” He said, “Let
him sue us, I’d love this one.” But he didn’t. Bobby told him ‘he was fired and here is his check
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for the next two weeks and see you.’ And he got mad and he cussed everybody but he got up and
walked out and that was the last problem we had with him.
You know dealing with personnel at all levels becomes a real problem and when you’re
Dean of Faculty you are in administration and you get all kinds of side jobs out of that. I had a
Division Chair come to me, this was up in the shop area, wanted a guy fired and I said, “Okay,
tell me the deal.” He handed me a deal about that thick and I started to look through it. Boy it
was well done. Now, he had been in industry and he wanted to get out of that and get into
teaching where, the first one was an excellent teacher but he wanted to get out of that hubbub of
the business world and I read through that and I called the guy in the next morning and I said, it
was in the spring of the year, and I said “I’m not going to renew your contract.”
[Instructor] “Well you can’t do that, I’m tenured.”
I said “I just did it you’re not going to get a contract.”
Well he said, “I don’t know why you’re doing this”
I said “Sit down.” So I opened it [the folder] up and I started reading, dates, time, people
all that. And I said “Now you know, losing a job is a family affair, go home and talk to your
family about it. What’cha going to do about it.” I said, “You’re done.” The next morning he
came in and handed me a letter. It was the most glowing letter I had ever read in my life, he had
enjoyed his teaching, we had been so good to him, you know, on and on and on. That was it.
This was one of the hardest jobs, I think for people, outside of the administration, their
10:01:21[???] administers, Division Chairs, what have you. Under our system at least, what’s
going on [elsewhere]. They wanted to be liked; they didn’t like to have, to create any problems.
So they wouldn’t write things down. They’re busy. They wouldn’t write things down, they
wouldn’t record things, they didn’t really talked to people about those kind of things, until it
grew to the point that they were sick and tired of the whole thing, they wanted it over with and
then from our standpoint you’ve got nothing to stand on. So those kinds of things, educating the
division chairs, this is additional work, but it saves you a lot of work in evaluating these people.
And evaluate them good as well as problems. So we get a clearer picture of what we are really
dealing with. So I add, they are both tough, they are both tough. You’re dealing with different
people under different circumstances and different problems but you get, some of ‘em are
amusing, I got a call from, a guy who was teaching business machines he said “I turned on the
light, and it began to smoke and tar falling down, what am I going to do?” I said “Turn the
switch off.”
But you know, it is things like that, I had a woman come into me, closed the door, closed
the shades told me she had an affair with another instructor and you know, I love my husband
and all this kind of stuff, got up and walked out, well why did I have to know it, you know. But
anyway, I still harbor that in my mind, I’ve never told anybody who it is or anything else, I didn’t
want to know it. But it is another one of those things. Sometimes they come in and unload
something on you and there is nothing you can do about it, they don’t want you to do anything
about it, they just want to talk to you. And that’s one of things that’s part of the job that why
some people can’t handle it, they can’t listen. They gotta be talking instead of listening.
Sometimes, you don’t want to hear it, but there is nothing you can do about it but take that
energy off their chest and you’re handy.
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Hedgpeth: So, can we switch gears and from Dean of Faculty to Vice-President?
Loftin: It wasn’t that different, I think Tim really turned things over to me. He was busy in the
Foundation, he was busy with politics, he was busy with the board, the foundation board, what
have you and I just pretty well took care of the academic parts of. I got more and more into of
working with the division chairs. Developing curriculum, expanding programs, developing new
programs. And I did get more into politics, while I was working, I never missed a board meeting,
but Tim was good that way in that he didn’t feel threatened. I attended all the board meetings I
attended, the foundation board meetings, I had started dealing with legislatures and that was
good because what I eventually did that was my training for that position.
Hedgpeth: Do you think Dr. Aley had you in mind as a successor?
Loftin: I really don’t know, I really don’t know. I think he knew I was going to do something
somewhere and I think he felt, you know. Well we were good buddies, we were good friends, and
I think we felt comfortable with each other. We worked together very well. We accepted the
other’s thoughts, proposals, we felt free to say you know, it stinks, forget it, without being a
10:06:35wreaker/Wanker you know we were doing business. I think, no I think Tim felt that I
was going to do something somewhere and when he decided to retire, I didn’t apply for three or
four months and I got to thinking about it and I thought I think I could do as well as anyone else
and so I made application. But that particular job really broadened. I stood with the Dean of
Faculty working with the existing curriculum and so forth. It expanded in many different ways
and by then I had my Doctorate and then I also I got to working with North Central Association
as a consultant examiner.
Hedgpeth: North Central Association?
Loftin: Yeah, this is the accrediting authority for the 19 state area, North Central, headquartered
in Chicago. They select individuals who have quite a bit of experience in various kinds of things
and they form teams, depending upon the size of school, I was on one with two and I was on one
with 16. Three multi campus in Colorado but that kind of thing really broadens your- [other tape
recorder clicks stopped]
Hedgpeth: You can continue.
Loftin: It really broadens your conduct and it also gives you a pretty good strain because you are
in someone else’s institution trying to tell them how to, you don’t tell them what to do, but you
tell them, “Here’s your problems, here are you strengths and your weaknesses. Here some things
you should look at.” I was at one in Illinois, the first, I met with faculty first thing they said was
“Fire the President.” I said, “You have the wrong group, we do not do that, talk to the Board of
Trustees.” But they kept harping on it, harping on it, “Fire the President.” Well you probably
don’t want put that,” but anyway that’s being Vice-President for Academic affairs. You are
meeting with people who want new programs after business and industry- various groups, and
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you are working with them, to try to see what they want and what they need and then developing
curriculum, finding faculty, equipment, all that kind of stuff so it was considerably different that
just being faculty.
Hedgpeth: How long were you Vice-President of Academic Affairs?
Loftin: Oh boy, I got my doctorate in ’68 and I became President, whenever.
Hedgpeth:’79, 1979?
Loftin:’79 yeah. That was an interesting deal. Where do you want to go from here?
Hedgpeth: Well why don’t we go ahead and you stated that in 1979 that when you became
President, you wanted Casper College to be an institution that is student oriented.
Loftin: Yeah, that was just a continuation of my feelings and then the way I worked as Dean of
Students and what have you. I wanted an understanding but I remember going before the faculty
at the beginning of the year and I said, “You know you should be very proud, we are growing,
we got a lot of students coming in. Those students picked here. You should be proud of that fact.
And the faculty, that they are coming to you, they have made that selection. There are other
places they could have gone but they selected this place. To me that’s thrilling. And they should
look at it the same way.” I wanted the faculty to understand that this was not their institution.
This belongs to the students; it belongs to the community and more and more to the State. And
that you are employed here to satisfy those people, educate those people, and make them feel
good. So that was just my operating philosophy. I had heard some people; I heard them say,
“Well these kids couldn’t go to the University.” Well we had a lot of people that went to the
University and came here. We picked up a couple hundred kids every fall or beginning of spring
semester, who went to the University and for various reasons they flunked out, or they didn’t like
it that big, what have you, they came back to us. So that’s just, and I told them, “I don’t care how
old a person is, if they are coming here for an education, let’s treat them like a student. Treat
them well.” And so that’s just, I don’t know, just the way I operated. Just a feeling I had that
that’s what we are here for.
Hedgepeth: Okay, well let’s talk about your presidency then.
Loftin: Well listen, are you going to stay here, I don’t care.
Hedgepeth: I’m good right now. We’ve got a whole other side of a tape, you are all right sir, you
getting tired.
Loftin: I’ve got to get home by about 1:00 o’clock.
Hedgepeth: Okay
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Loftin: My wife’s leaving for Fort Collins.
Hedgepeth: Okay, we’ve got some time here, I think we can do it, the last part of it.
Loftin: I did not want to be President. I didn’t. And I didn’t want to see Tim quit, but he was
pretty well burned out and it was his decision and as I said, “I didn’t apply for the job for three or
four months after it opened up, but I guess my ego said, ‘You can do this as well as anybody, so
take a shot at it.” I am very lucky in that, I didn’t know this until after I was hired, but there were
petitions from faculty to the board of trustees, requesting that I be hired as President. Didn’t get
them all but I remember there were about 98% of the faculty signed a petition which made me
feel good. It really felt like just changing offices. A little later, when I had to go to the legislature
and these kinds of things it changed, but I just felt at home. I was working with the same people,
we had the same philosophy we always had and I was interviewed by the TV station and I said
“Nothing is going to change very fast.” I said, “There may be some changes made but I said right
now, ships upright and doing well and I’m not going to change it. Tim got a good ship.”
We started, I remember one of the first meetings I had with faculty, I said, “How many of
you would use a computer?”
[Faculty] “We don’t want computers.” That was an old C-3 I believe it was and it was in
my office. Of course we had the main frame, but you go into any classroom, there’s no
computers. The engineers and some of the mathematicians were using the main frame. That was
the old card system for gosh sakes, but the engineering students were getting a taste of it. So I
asked the faculty, “How many of you people would use a computer? Well you would have
thought I asked them, “How many of you are going to hell?” Oh, my, we don’t want to learn
programming and that kinds of stuff, and I said, “You don’t have to learn programing, some of
you will, maybe later. But the programs are out there, pick the ones that will work, come in and
use them.” Well they started getting interested, business was particularly, was, I think, probably
one of the first one that kinda got interested in it. I remember Arlene Larson had a writing lab
and she said, I would like to try computers so I put out bids for computers, we were going to buy
about 15 and we wound up with the old TRS- 80 TR put out by Radio Shack, and I said, “Why
did you get those?” Well, they work for that program very well, and what she wanted to do was
see in using the computer where you could go back and correct. You could go back later and
make all the changes, flop sentences, paragraphs, would that make them more creative? Instead
of having to stop and erase, or when you are on a typewriter, you have to white out and what
have you, which interrupts your thoughts? She explained to the students, “Just do it and later you
can go back very easily and make those changes.” I don’t know what she came up with but it
sounded good to me, so we bought her 15 computers. That was one of the big changes in seeing
this age going out here, going that direction and we were really weren’t up to it, we weren’t
keeping up. We started having requests for secretaries, computers, particular software. So we
finally, well we went to the legislature, appropriations committee, Sinclair Orendorff and myself
and Chuck Rogers, who was at Torrington, to request bookoo money to get us started in
computers, in structure computers. The chairman of the appropriation committee, co-chairman
happened to be from Casper and he said, “Boy that is a lot of money.” And he said, “How many
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computers you guys own?” And I said “Sinclair, you got one, Chuck, you got one, and we got
one.” Three institutions and we got a computer in each one.
[Chairman] “Well, that’s a lot of money.” I said, “Well, these , well two of us Powell and
Casper, has a returned of 3 quarters of a million dollars because we made more money through
tuition, fees, what have you, we have all these students than we said two years ago in our
appropriations request that we would have. We couldn’t keep the money, they wouldn’t let us
keep it, I said, “there is three quarter of a million.”
“Well,” he said, “that might work.” They gave us $250,000, but it got us started. We
started developing land, business, for instance, was one that really wanted to get into procuring
county. Electronics, so we got into the computer age and the faculty started catching on, that all
that software out there, someone has developed this neat stuff. Now I walk around campus, you
go to the bathroom, they’ve got computers. Which makes me feel good because that is the way
things are going. And we got in in time, in to [electronic age in time at] the College.
I had a kid come to me one time, many years ago, he went from here, he spent two years
here, and then he went to Southern Methodist University. He came back Christmas and he said,
he stopped in my office, he said “I want to tell you that I have spent a year at Southern Methodist
and I have not found any instructors or any instructions as good as I got right here.” I said, “I like
to hear that.” He said, but, he was in business, “I haven’t seen a rotary calculator since I’ve been
down there.” That hurt, that hurt. We got rid of our rotary calculators and we started getting
electronic calculators. But this is a- well as President see you- you’re in charge of all that crap
plus a lot of politics, I hate, I hate politics. Went down and talked to one of our legislators, he
promised me the moon and did nothing. He got rid of me, you know. Another one who was in the
minority party, was a good friend of mine, I’d go talk to him, I got something. You gotta live
with the stuff, but there is politics in faculty, just as well, there is politics in the local community.
Hegepeth: What were your dealings with the Board of Trustees, while you were president?
Loftin: Well I’ll tell you, we had a tremendous Board of Trustees. They didn’t get into our
business, we kept them plenty informed and I remember we had a woman on the board, new
member, and I don’t know if you are familiar with our County since that time but you had string
of numbers which was an account and the numbers changed with different accounts, you know,
all laid out, all the money right there and we would give them three years of that stuff so they
could see what happened three years ago, so she said, “I think you need to break this down more
so we know exactly what you are spending this money for.” I mean she meant by item, you
know, if we bought a bottle of water, we bought a calculator and the president of the board was a
business man, who ran a large company, and he said, “You know I think we are getting along real
well, let’s move on”.
Hedgpeth: Next order of business, yeah.
Loftin: It was an education for her, I mean he didn’t say it with anger, but just “Let’s move on.”
She got the message but they didn’t get into our business but they knew what was going on. And
for instance, when I interviewed well, I had been selected as President, I told the board I would
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like to meet in an executive session, my first time with the board. I said, we’ve got a personnel
matter and the personnel was me, I said that I want the board to tell me exactly what you want
me to do. And the Board President said, “Run this place, run it right or we will fire you and get
someone that does.” I said, “I understand that.” That’s the way they ran it.
The Board knew the community that was the thing that was their strength. They were up
from this community, long standing, all professional people, they knew the community. That
helped me because I didn’t know the community the way they did. They didn’t try to tell us how
to teach school, who to hire, who to fire, who to buy from, all they said was when you go out to
buy something, make sure that everyone gets a chance. In other words, here is what we need,
here’s the specks bid on it. And, they wanted it local, if they could possibly get it local. With the
latest stink, the city, here, what have you. Every building we built, while I was here, it was a low
quality 10:25:06. Every building we built had a local contractor, at least in State. Sometimes
Wright or Cheyenne would bid on a building. Equipping buildings, there were times we couldn’t.
I remember ordering a bunch of computers, portables, because they were going out to high
schools and carrying the computers with them and I bought those from a dealer out of State and I
heard about it. Board President said, “Why did you do that?” I said, “We put it out on bid,” and I
said, “we got we got a pretty good bid here but that was just with the computers. They are
furnishing us with the same bid, they are furnishing us with cases to put them in and a couple
other little things over and above what the bid was for, I mean what the request was for. So I had
to go with them.”
[Board President] “Okay, that makes sense.”
I think there is a change, a bit of a change in the attitude of the faculty when you take that
top rung. I don’t know what it is, I don’t understand it. But there are guys that I had fished with
and hunted with, some of those got kinda stand offish. I guess, maybe I did too, I remember my
secretary, right before I retired, said, “Dr. Loftin you don’t have many close friends, guys you
buddy around with. Why?” And I said well, “I am going to have to fire some people, I am going
to have to reprimand some people and I don’t want friendship to get in the way.” I said, “I miss
‘em but I didn’t want to be perceived as someone who takes care of my friends.” I said, “I don’t
like it but it goes with the job.”
She said, “How can you do that?”
I said, “That’s what I gotta do. For me that is what I have to do.” And I had to reprimand
some people who I had fished with but I believe in equality and in my own mind I felt that was
the only way I could really handle it, was to, I guess that makes me stand off-ish, doesn’t it?
Hedgpeth: Well if it works. Can I ask you some more questions?
Loftin: Yes.
Hedgpeth: Alright. Well, we’ve talked about that. You, at one point you said you were opposed
to admission requirements stating, and I quote, “A community college must be an open door
institution,” what are your thoughts on that?
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Loftin: Well I think it is the philosophy of the institution, not the institution, it is the philosophy
of the community college as they have developed. Junior Colleges, it urks me when people say
“Junior College,” we’re not. Never have been. And I try to tell them the difference but we, the
community college philosophy is to make yourself available to anyone who wants to. Now if you
get rid of them later, that’s fine but give them a chance.
I remember a little old lady that used to wonder around classes, the little old lady was
taking ceramics. She wanted to be potter, she was probably sixty five and in months, he tried and
he worked with her and when she finished the class, she had basically a pile of mud and he gave
her an “F.” And the next semester I got a call from him, he said, “That woman is back, she
wants,” he said “She can’t do it.” I said, “Give her a chance, and give her one more chance.” She
did get better. And she said, “You know, I can’t do that.” To me that was a part of her education,
she learned “I can’t do this, I want to but I can’t.” I don’t care if it is a freshman; a sixty year old
woman comes in and wants to do something, we give them a chance. If they can’t cut it, maybe
they get mad at us, you know, that’s the way it goes. But in her case and I know of others that
said, “You know, I can’t do this so I’ll try something else.” Well to me that is Community
College philosophy. You give them the best shot you can give them.
We had a guy, who was very prominent in this country; he got a full ride to Yale, a full
ride. He told me, he said, “I partied up a storm and they told me, “You go get this straighten out
and you can come back, otherwise you’re out of here.” He went to two or three different places
to get in and they wouldn’t take him because he had failed. We took him. He did very well,
stayed with us one year but he got his record clean and he moved on. He told me, “You know,
you saved my life.” 10:31:26 And I don’t want it on here but that was the Vice President of the
United States, Cheney.
Hedgpeth: That’s important.
Loftin: Well, again, it answers a question, what are we here for? He wasn’t the only one, I know
another kid that came out of the service of the Korean War, he was hellion and he drank like a
fish, fight, and scratch, what have you. He got kicked out of the University, he comes here, He
said, “Will you let me in?, “We’ll let you in for one semester on probation, if you don’t cut it
you’re out of here, then you’re dead.” Straight “A’s” in Accounting, finished two years with us
Straight “A’s” and went to the University of Denver, graduated Cum Laude, in accounting. Now
in a very large accounting firm in Denver now, very successful. What are we here for?
Hedgpeth: While you were President, there was a lot of talk and discussion about Casper
College, once again becoming a four year institution.
Loftin: Yeah, yeah. Well Tim, that was one of his passions, and he wasn’t by himself. This
community wanted it. We had a legislature that is 95% graduates of the University of Wyoming
and 90% of those are members of the “Cowboy Joe” Club. The rest of the legislature either went
to Yale, or Notre Dame or what have you. They don’t have much of a philosophy of community
colleges. The community was real hot, and there were people outside of the community, across
the state that could see that this is something that is needed. We wasted a lot of energy, a lot of
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time, a lot of thought in how to convince people, particularly those who have the power and the
money, that this is needed.
Dick Tobin, who is on our board, was President of Senate introduced a bill one year to
make this into a four year school. It had almost passed but it was a farce. They gave enough
votes to make Dick feel good. During that session, Tim and I were down at the legislature and
legislator from Cheyenne came to me and he said, “You know this is a good idea, I think you
have a darned good idea here but I have a problem.”
I said, “What’s your problem”?
[Legislator] “How could we keep you from playing football?”
I said “We don’t want to play football, we want to teach school.” Well that went down the
toilet but anyway, the idea hasn’t gone away. I think there was a time when it got pretty low on
people’s thinking but I’m hearing it now more, coming up more interest in it. I took a shot, I told
the board one time, I said “We need Upper division in this community. There are a lot of people
here who want an education, need an education. They can’t afford to leave, too many problems, I
problems with kids, jobs, what have you, but they want an education, they need an education
beyond what we can afford.” I said, “I think maybe it’s time that this Board take a leap of faith
and say “Okay, we are going to invite somebody in here to join with us to have an upper
division.” Had a couple of board members who looked at me like, “You know you are out of
your mind.” But they discussed it and finally said “What can you work out, see what you can
work out.”
The President of the University then was, anyway he was an astronomer and he wanted, I
mean he was a common sense guy, and he said, “Let’s go to work on this.” Sitting down in his
office, he formed a little committee, he and I formed a little committee, to say “What do we
want? What do you want up here? What do we want up here? And what can we agree on?” I kept
the Board informed, everything that was happening. Well finally, we got an agreement that both
boards would buy. My board President didn’t want to do it. But he signed it. I wasn’t overly
happy with it but I signed it. Their Board Chairman signed it right here in this building and their
President signed it. In my mind, in my lifetime, it is the only way we are going to get upper
division here. Someone told me we graduated a hundred and some kids last year. We now have
other institutions, the freedom to bring in other institutions to offer various specialties on our
upper division level. North Central has noticed this, the accrediting authority, because they want
to make sure you are doing what you say you are doing and they are pretty particular about it.
They were I guess they still are. But, my Dad would say “There is more than one way to skin a
cat.” I still would like to see an upper division run by this institution as a State college but until
we get there politically, I think we have the next best thing and I know some people awfully
tickled because it is here. They had a chance to do it.
Hedgpeth: Well you did a great job. That was my thoughts regarding the UW CC merger.
Loftin: Well we had some real problems when it first came, they sent a young administrator up
here that wanted to impress them. He was not very cooperative. He was stand-offish and sorta
had the aura that “we are better than you.” They wanted the use of our instructors, which was
part of our agreement. Those that had the qualifications, who wanted to teach university then
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would let them teach in the upper division. That created some problems because our pay scale
was considerably different. I had a mathematician that would have gone with a full time because
he never had enough money, but anyway, he was getting more money per hour working for them
than he was for us. So there were some of those problems. The last association I had with them,
they had a new director. He must have gotten his under-graduate degree at a community college
because he had that attitude, and things were going well, the faculties were meshing both on and
off campus. So it was becoming sort of one institution type of feel and attitude so I think it has
worked out reasonably well. I still think we need an upper division here. I think the State would
be better off. I believe in competition and if they could run us off that’s fine, and if we could run
them off, that’s fine.
Hedgpeth: What do you think you’re greatest achievement was while you were President? At
one point and one, I think in your retirement you had mentioned the Gertrude Krampert Theater,
the maintenance building, forensic team, animal judging, had quite a list of buildings that were
actually, The Goodstein Foundation Visual Arts Center and Roberts Common, Tate Earth
Science Center and the Neurological Museum, Grace Werner Agricultural Pavilion, Harry T.
Thorsen Institute of Business, Center for Career Studies, The Inga Thorsen Terrace, the Theater,
Casper College Pavilion all of these during your Presidency, what do you consider the greatest
achievement?
Loftin: I don’t think any one. I really don’t. The Theater, I had a thrill out of the Theater. We had
the little Theater downstairs, you never saw it. I don’t know what is down there now.
Hedgpeth: Books.
Loftin: Okay, oh no, no excuse me, I mean in the Administration Building. [I believe the theater
was located in the building called Administration Building, now the Liesinger Hall as of 2014,
before the East end was built on, and it was located on the second floor from the College Drive
Street entrance, A. Martin]
Hedgpeth: Oh, now I’ve never been there.
Loftin: As you come in the front door, it is across from the boiler room.
Hedgpeth: I.T. LabsLoftin: That’s right. Well that was the little theater and I had never seen Theater in the round so
much until I came here. Ken Ury, he was the director and the community liked it. Then to roam
around in that thing, we are growing. It was so inadequate then to talk Mrs. Krampert into
coughing up some money, then the foundation came in with the rest. To see that building built
and to have Tom Empey here at the same time, it was great.
I went to the Commission, the legislature was then getting onto community colleges for
buildings, if they could match it and work out some kind of thing. And Riverton got a bunch of
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money for a theater, I don’t know, various things like that, and they said, “What’s your request”?
And I said “I need some money for a Maintenance Building.”
[Commissioners] “Maintenance Building?”
“Yeah,” I said, “We’ve got stuff stacked everywhere, it is inefficient.”
They said, “People are after classrooms, theaters, you asked for a maintenance building.”
I said, “You asked me what I need, that was it.” And it changed a lot of things. We had an auto
shop where we could do their servicing, what have you. Storage! I remember one year we had a
little money left over, the legislature wouldn’t take [so] we built a whole year’s supply of
mimeograph paper. We had a place to put it, safely. You can buy in bulk, you know we can buy
for a whole year of light bulbs, and all this kind of stuff, which we were normally buying just
what we needed at the time. So it was, that building did a lot of things, a place where they could
go and have coffee and meet and be together. It was safe, it was nice. It was efficient, so that was
I mean I didn’t get teary eyed over that one. That was one that was just sorely needed by the
institution. The addition to this building, to me, Tim felt the same way, you don’t have a college
until you have a library. It should have become the center of the institution. You can turn right,
there is a property supply people in there that, and I think we had them, that know what the
library is for they treat it that way. So this addition, again Goodstein’s coming through on that
one, to me it was very satisfying to have a very efficient, beautiful library that you would want to
go to. And it had the various things, not just books; it had the various things that was needed, like
you got here, to serve the community, not just the students that were enrolled, but the
community.
Let’s see. The, I don’t know, it is up there now the diesel, auto mechanic and diesel I
think, that was one that was really needed by the community. The business community. We are
lucky, we had a guy come in and he had worked in a diesel industry for 25 years, worked for
Cummins, he came in and said, “I’d like to teach.”
[Loftin] “What for, we can’t match your money” He never cared about that. He said,
“One reason, let me be honest with you, one reason is that I’m getting sick and tired of being
called at midnight, to go out into the oilfield and crawl under a caterpillar to repair it in a ground
blizzard.” He said, “I’m just peeved. But he said, “Also, I think I can teach these kids
something.” He said, I think I can make real good mechanics out of them and he did. Some of
the best teachers I had were up on the hill. Let’s see, you know I don’t Hedgpeth: This is a list I got out
Loftin: I can’t think of any that are really greater than any other.
Hedgpeth: Seventy-nine down to eighty-nine, right through there?
Loftin: Well this Thorsen Business Building, it did several things. We had this hill to contend
with and no good way to get up it. So by stair stepping that building and coming out of it at the
Aley Fine Art Building, that helped us get up the hill, we solved one problem but also our
business division was really growing. Business was changing; construction, use and what they
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were doing in business and industry, it was really changing. And that building really, we first, it
sits up there on the hill like a diamond.
Hedgpeth: Um hum, you can see it from coming into town on the free-way.
Loftin: You can see, you know when coming in from the north you can see that building. But the
faculty got to design their own building and they did an excellent job and they enjoyed using it.
The kids liked it. We, the old Armory was sitting over there at one time and we had a federally
funded program for welfare mothers basically, to try to teach them office skills and what have
you and they wound up on the top floor up there, I don’t know where they are now, but that was
a program that I had a bit of pride in. God those gals were rough, I mean their language and some
of their discussions, but one gal went through that program and is now a CPA and owns her own
business down here doing CPA work. So you know, you may have a drunk down here that didn’t
cut it but - and you know they are there, but you also have those that what you were trying to do
actually worked. So, the business building, I think, and it helped the whole community, I think
there was a pride in the business community and we had people coming up who I don’t think
would have come up otherwise, I really don’t.
Hedgpeth: Dr. Loftin, it is 12:30, would you mind coming back to finish this?
Loftin: Oh no, no.
Hedgpeth: All right, we will stop it here
[End of Audio Part 4]
Hedgpeth: My name is Terri Hedgpeth today’s date is July 27, 2011. This is the second day of
interviews with Dr. Loftin, at the Western History Center. Dr. Loftin, I have your permission to
record this?
Loftin: Oh yes.
Hedgpeth: Perfect, yesterday we left off talking about your achievements as President of Casper
College. Did you have anything further that you wanted to add to that?
Loftin: Well, thinking about it last night an administrator is only as good as the people working
for him. We had an excellent faculty, excellent board, and excellent administrative team. My
philosophy of administration is hire the best people you can hire, give them what they need to
work and leave them alone. And I tried to practice that but having a community like we have,
that was so supportive of the institution, ever since I got here, that makes your job a lot easier.
The institution always felt that it was necessary to meet all of the standards set up by the
accrediting authorities regardless whether it was North Central, the musical group, or the nursing
group, I had to make sure that we met those standards and maintained those standards. So, I
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guess I feel, the fact that we got together, the faculty and the administrative team that we had, to
do the job that we were supposed to do, was a great achievement but it wasn’t my achievement.
It was, each one was making their own contribution, which made everything run smoothly and so
I was pretty lucky.
Hedgpeth: Interesting that you say that because I have heard more than one person say, and this
was Mr. McCarthy, in 1987, said that you built an excellent faculty and staff at the college and I
have heard others say that, Dr. Aley was the architect but you were the person who brought the
faculty.
Loftin: You know, I think that was our co-operative type deal. As I have said before, Tim was
very interested in developing the campus. Buildings where they were needed, not just buildings
for buildings, but building where we had great need and where we were expanding. I was already
interested in teaching. I got a little irritated with people if they were not teaching to their
capacity. Some of the discussions I had with people was really on that, I didn’t want to tell them
how to teach, I just tried to get them to teach to the best of their ability and teach their discipline
and we did evaluations on every instructor at least once a year, student evaluations. I remember
when I got, was on an engineering instructor and we asked “what do we need?” and he said,
“Well we need a swimming pool because my engineering instructor can walk on water and I
would like to see it.” Well, what else can I say about that instructor, you know. Those were the
kind of things that I never tried to get in any one’s face and make them feel uncomfortable but I
wanted to talk to them about criticism they may have received from students, whether it was
right or wrong, we wanted to discuss it. And see if we could improve the instruction if that was a
legitimate message.
Hiring, as I have said before, I could not hire people today where I would have to write
down all these specific little things about how this person is stronger than this person, or this has
weakness here and this one doesn’t. I would have real difficulty doing that, guess I could, but
after interviewing a person, my navel told me yes or no and I think my navel was smarter than I
was, I think, because we hired an awful lot of good people and one year, we hired 27 new people
and these were new positions, they were not replacing people and that was a heck of a summer to
get those people lined up but I as I felt back [then]- the ones we hired during that summer,
awfully lucky. We had good candidates and the ones we hired turned out to be excellent people,
so, there is a lot of luck involved in it too, but when you are dealing with human beings, but it’s
easier to hire someone than it is to fire someone.
I tried to impress to Division Chairs, you know, its nothing to hire someone but getting
rid of them, when you don’t want them, is a pain and gets pretty scary. So, we tried to
concentrate on the front end and hire people we thought would really do the job and then we
didn’t have to worry about getting rid of them later on and all the trauma that would be involved
in that.
But, again, we had a board of trustees, they were the pillars of the community. They
loved this institution and they did their job in the community to make life a lot easier up here and
so it was team work all the way around. For instance, Tim, was a guy who maneuvered. He had a
vision, I mean, when I came here we had three buildings and a big drainage ditch and that was
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all. He had the vision, for instance, we were given a lot of land down at what is now the city
dump. All sand dunes. Well what do you do with that? Well Tim started dealing with the city to
trade them that, which they needed, for land next to the campus, which they owned. They are
building up there now, the business building, the fine arts building, the gym, that was traded, the
dump for that, the City. Mr. Morad, who the dorm is named after, gave us a piece of land out on
the river, undeveloped, which is now Morad Park. That was traded to the city for land where the
dormitories are now. So those were, well the city wanted their policemen educated, wanted them
to have full degrees. We started that program but the trade off, no tuition, no fees but we got the
land over where the theater is. So Tim had that kind of way of dealing with people to get what
this institution needed. Real shroud way of doing business. So that took a lot of time and a lot of
energy and so he just left me alone to do the academic bit and he took care of the expansion, and
we were growing so rapidly.
Now, I don’t want to make this sound like Tim’s interview but Tim Aley was the right
person, at the right time, at the right place. He and the Board sued to separate from the public
schools, so it became a separate legal entity. Why the Supreme Court could see that we would
get State funding, that this was legal to get State funding, he helped to develop other institutions
to get them off the ground. Tell those Board Members, this is the way you run an institution. So,
he was sorta the father of the modern community college deal in the state. But that was his
passion, that was his skill and he was a very academic man so I don’t want to say he wasn’t
interested in academics, he was. He did what he really liked to do and he let me do what I like to
do and I think we made a pretty good team.
Hedgpeth: Sounds like it, glad you addressed Dr. Aley. It was one of my questions. Do you have
any regrets or desires that you wished to accomplish while you were president that you were not
able to?
Loftin: I think we always go back to the four year issue. I felt and still do that it’s, well you have
a monopoly in anything. The one who is holding the monopoly gets sloppy and I don’t like
sloppiness in education. Someday it will come, I won’t be here. It’s going to have to come. This
State is going to get more and more population and people are going to get more and more
restless. I’m not saying it is going to be here. There is going to be a four year institution. Politics
is going to decide where it goes, it could be Gillette, which is growing very rapidly with the
Gillette College they call it now, which is actually an extension of Sheridan College. I did, I
think, all I could do to convince the Board to let the University come in here less cooperatively,
UWCC Center provide educational up sprints on upper division. The people in this community
and in this area. And there are some people who don’t want to go to the University of Wyoming,
they would prefer to come to a smaller institution where there is more personal instruction and
counseling. So that is something I will always regret. Other than that, there is nothing. There is
things I might want to do to expand offerings or to expand some faculty or nursing program was
always a struggle. I am probably more proud of it than anything that I ever accomplished.
Hedgpeth: Explain.
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Loftin: Well, we had, we do have an excellent hospital. The physicians and nurses we knew.
Where you had one institution providing nursing students, which was the University’s four year
program. It was tough for kids, potential students. Had to bundle up. Many of them married,
widowed, divorced, kids all over the place and it would have been a major struggle for them to
go to the University for a Four year Program. When I was delving into the two year, associate
degree nursing program, I could see the real potential and in visiting with people, of course
traveling with North Central, I went to the institutions that had nursing programs. So I talked to
those people, how things worked, how the students, I had one thing they told me, a student can
come to our two year program, highly concentrated and get their associate degree in nursing,
take the State Board’s for a licensed nurse and they can go to a four year institution to finish their
bachelor’s if they wish and they have something to sell. They can make a living, and I had a
needed area. Well that intrigued me. We fought like the devil, Tim and I both, to try to get that
accepted by the State Board. Now, one of the real problems was there were three members of the
State Board, two of them were instructors at the University of Wyoming. The other had
graduated from there and we met with them, our director of nursing, Tim and I, met with the
State Board and they had their attorney there. They raked us over the coals. I remember about
three hours and finally Tim said, “Tell us what you want us to do and we’ll do it.” They looked at
their attorney and he said, “What can you say?” So they finally approved it.
We again had nursing personnel that were dedicated teachers. We had some real struggles
but our Psychiatric, we had to take those kids to Evanston for their Psychiatric one summer. That
first class was 27 women, all of them on welfare. As I remember, it represented about 63
children. One woman had seven. So, they were, those students were dedicated or they wouldn’t
have put up with some of the stuff but that having to go to Evanston, with their trying to find
housing in Evanston at that time for those students, them having to farm their kids out here, they
were young, and they made it. All twenty-seven of them took the State Boards and Edna Preach
was our director we sweated for several weeks and finally the scores came back and Edna called
me. She said the State Board’s scores are back, said I wanted to call, I don’t remember her name,
the woman had six or seven kids, divorced, on welfare, she called her and I was on the other
phone and she [Edna] told her [student], she said, “Board scores are back. Do you want to hear
the scores, find out how you did?”
She [student] said, “I don’t know.” Finally she said, “Yeah, I want to know.” Edna said,
“You passed, very well.” She started crying, she said “Thank God, I’m off welfare.” That made
everything worth it, that one woman, made everything worth it. All 27 passed, two of the scored
higher than University Students who took the same exam at the same time. That pretty well
established our program, and then we started, not just the welfare people, young girls coming in,
they knew what was going on, they knew that it was a good program. We still had people coming
in, men and women come in to that program, who could not do anything otherwise.
I remember, it created some problems in our minds. He is now dead, this is hard. We had
a big Chicano man, he was a bear. Stood about six four, six five, weighed well over three
hundred pounds. They [nursing instructors] looked at me and said, “You know, what are we
going to do with this?”
[Loftin] We are going to teach him, give him an education. I remember one case where
they were going into OB = GYN.
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[Nursing Instructors] “How do we handle Jess?”
I said, “Jess is going to be a nurse, just like any other nurse and he needs to be treated that
way.” So old Jess went through all that program. There were many women that knew Jess,
pregnant, their backs were hurting, you know, the whole bit, when they delivered, they would
call for Jess. He was working at the hospital at that time.
[Patients] “You’re going to turn me, I want Jess to turn me.”
He went to Evanston to do the psychiatric, and he saw that those people had very little to
do. They would wonder around. So each weekend, Jess was married, each weekend, he would
come home, he thought of getting bicycles. He found bicycle parts frames, wheels, chains,
handlebars, bagging them all over town, hauling them back, put them together. Those people
rode bicycles all over that ground at Evanston. Merle Carter, who was our Psych instructor here
later, was director of nursing over there. She said, “I want Jess.” He worked for them a little
while, he had some marital problems and so he had to give up on that and come back over here.
But he was an excellent nurse. Now you look at him and you think, you know, you draw
conclusions, you shouldn’t, but Jess was an excellent nurse, they loved him at the hospital. He
did special projects at the hospital. There is now a scholarship here, he died about six or eight
months ago. But there is now a scholarship being formed here for Jess Platto? [spelling?].
9:50:29 Check with Laurie Johnston maybe? I am wondering, but that program, the hospital
here, many hospitals, could not really function well without that program. I don’t mean in this
state, it is known wide for the product it puts out. So I am very proud of that program and have
couple stars over. That’s the kind of thing you like to develop and see it grow and become a very
positive thing as far as the institution in the State’s concern.
Hedgpeth: Do you think that your emphases, while you were president, was different from
previous and successor Casper College Presidents, and if so, Why?
Loftin: Well we’ve talked about Tim and I, we had different interests. One who followed me, I
can’t even think of his name – Viara,
Hedgpeth: Yes, Les Viara [spelling???]
Loftin: Les Viara. Les was what I referred to as a CookBook President. He liked to go to
meetings, someone bring up an idea he hadn’t heard of before, then he comes back and wants to
stuff it in, whether it works or not. That was his way of operating and that was his business and
not mine, but of course he didn’t last very long, maybe 18 months or something like that. There
was just, he could not lead the faculty. He couldn’t lead the Board. You gotta lead them too, so
he was dismissed.
Lee Strausner, I knew as a student. He came here, Marie Stewart, who was a dean, or an
assistant dean, she loved Lee. He was such a kind person, and she just really loved him and so
after he finished his degree in psychology. Taught a few years in public school, and we had an
opening in psych so he made an application here and Marie insisted that he be hired. Lee was a
very caring person, I say he was, he is a very caring person. When I would leave and go, say to a
North Central Trip or to commission meeting, or whatever, I would always let Lee be the acting
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President, cause he wanted to be president someday. And so I thought I would give him a taste
and what have you and he wanted to do it. Lee was very student oriented, and I don’t think he
was as attached to instructional things as I was, but he was interested in students as students and
their progress and so he had heavy emphasis on counseling, testing and that type of stuff as far as
the students were concerned.
That’s about it, I have no way of judging what’s going on here. I am detached from it.
When I became President, Tim moved down the hall to the next office and there were some
faculty that loved him and didn’t care for me and so they would go to Tim, instead of coming to
me as President. I don’t think Tim ever did anything to undercut me at all. But when I decided to
retire, I said, “I’m not coming back up here.” I’d go to plays, ball games and I came up and got
insurance forms once. Otherwise, I have never been here. Well some building dedications, I was
invited to, like extension of this dedication of this building and so forth. But I am convinced in
my own mind, when they hire a new president, that’s it, you go home. You stay home and let the
guy run the joint. I have done that, and I recommended it to Lee when he retired, “Don’t go back
up there, it’s none of your business anymore.” That’s sort of a thing of mine, when I quit
something, I quit it. When I went out of public schools and to college, I never went back to my
high school once. I finished college, rah, rah, sis boom bah, I was over. Military, I served my
time, I served my country then it was over. So that has just been my belief, my attitude, and so
that is what happened here. When I retired from that job, I wasn’t President anymore and I was
not an employee anymore so stay away and let people run the joint. That’s about all I can see,
there are probably things going on that I don’t know nothing about, but that’s, it was none of my
business anyway. And, the Boards, I worked for the Board, I was never close to the Board
otherwise, so there was no socialization or anything other than that, once I retired. We were
friendly, there were no animosities anywhere and that was fine, that was great, but I was never so
close to the board that there was any socialization taking place.
Hedgpeth: With the growth of Casper College from seventy-three students in 1945 to almost
two thousand in 1985, when you were President, what do you see are the strengths of Casper
College and how do you view this student growth?
Loftin: Well, one of the things that we worked at real hard was continuing education. It’s one of
the leg of the stool of community college, was continuing education. We worked very hard at it,
Joe Stewart was, we made him the Evening School, we call it the Evening School Director and
we had a lot of people from the community come up here and take courses. We insisted that
students be enrolled in the evening as well. We insisted that full time instructors do some
teaching in the evening school. So that the community could see them and they could see the
community. I had one instructor that wanted to teach only at night. He loved the mix of the full
time students and the continuing education student. We didn’t allow it but that shows that some
of the dynamics that was going on.
We had a large population of evening school students. We had a number of kids in high
school or that had just finished high school that would come at night to try to get a start, get a
taste, and then sometime later, when they felt they were ready, would come into full time. So that
was, and I think that contact with the community and the community with us and it was just
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before I got here but this is just an example, the year before I got here, three major oil companies
left this community. One went to Ohio and two went to Tulsa, Oklahoma. Moved their people
completely, which was a real blow to the economy of this community. The one bond issue that
we gave, I wasn’t here but was given at that time, the only one during my tenure, passed
something like eleven to one. It was a pretty good size bond issue at the time and then the
economy that was in force when the board and Tim, asked them to support. One of the reasons
why we had that kind of vote, where people knew they could come up here and were coming up
here and receiving instructions, full time instructors in many cases and they appreciated it and
they were willing to suck it up and pay through the nose. That was taxes to the, it was because
they were proud of the institution and wanted to, wanted to keep going. We’re convinced that
what was going on with the community, the people who voted, the people who paid, was a real
strength and growth factor as far as the institution was concerned.
I know things change, I know the commission didn’t want to fund it for instance. About
the time I got ready to retire the commission didn’t want to fund that, let it pay for itself. But, it
was one of the missions and I think one of the missions that really added to strength of and
power of this institution. I think working with groups who were not necessarily collegiate levels
and some that were, but were technical level, police, fire, EMT, a number of these kind of things
I think showed the community and the EMT that this was pretty well state wide; environmental
sciences, water, sewer, these are things that are needed in the state no one else was doing it and
so getting into those kind of things, I think, always adds to the strength of the institution and
shows its dedication to what it is supposed to be doing. I think that probably is- Of Course just
having good daily instruction, summer school and always shooting for quality. That always adds
to the strength of an institution.
Hedgpeth: You said that continuing education was one of the legs of the footstool of a
community college, what are the others?
Loftin: Well academic, full time academics, continuing education, the academic, and then the
trades or technical type of things, but then and community service and continuing education. A
Junior College by definition is a first two years instruction, that first two years, before the senior
or University level. Same stuff, same books, same approach. Community College has extinction
[think he meant distinction], it serves that, that’s one leg, but it also has continuing education,
technical education and community service. So announcers to football irked me, oh he is just a
Jr. College transfer, well you know that is fine. Rodman who will be in the hall of fame was one
of those, you know, in basketball, and it irks me, mainly because of the ignorance. Because it,
Tom Brokaw was a community college graduate, he did pretty well. You know it is my own
personal bias but those things bother me, because by definition, you know it’s like calling Ohio
State University a college. But anywayHedgpeth: I know what you mean, I went two years, full time, at a college, and met my husband
and then for the next 17 years, it took me 17 years to get my bachelor’s but I would not have
gone and got my bachelor’s if I did not get my associates from Gulf Coast Community College,
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that was one of those things, I have to, I have to see some progress here. That is what I worked
towards and once I saw that progress, I can do this. I can continue.
Loftin: You know, in many cases and I think we have students that come here and think this is a
little less than, but then they see this is challenging they meet people who go on and do very well
at a senior institution. So it sort of wakes them up a bit and gives them confidence that they can
go on, you know, we can name a number of people who went through here that did very well. I
know one kid, you look at him when he came here, a big tall gangly kid, you know, he is now a
Doctor, a PHD,at John Hopkins. He is one of the world renounced physicians, in child’s AIDS.
Well, you know I could name a couple that are in prison two but you know you take them all, the
point being, and I had a number of those kids come back and say “I don’t care I been-“ some of
them MD’s, what have you, come back and say “The best instruction I ever had was here.”
There’s guy who is at Texas A & M, about ready to retire, he went here. Math and
engineering and he is a researcher to Von Kluch Institute in Germany as well as working at Texas
A & M and he still comes here [Casper] to talk, to promote, and he would like to see this be a
four year school. He does everything he can because he says it would be one of the best, because
of the attitude. And, you know there is a number of people there, that are common people, they
haven’t, they are not MD’s or PHD’s or what have you. But they are well educated people adding
to the community, adding to the State, and they got started right here.
Hedgpeth: It sounds like a lot of your former students, or students that were here while you were
president have come back and contacted you.
Loftin: Well a number of them have, I meet a few you know, down town, or, what have you and
while I was still working, a number of them would drop by just a little bit. I ran into one down in
Mesa, Arizona. I had him as a freshman in Zoology and he is now retired, and they are living in
Mesa, and they get the Wyoming people together, basically Casper people together once a year
for a little deal, you know, eat and visit. He showed up a year ago, two years ago and so when
they mentioned his name, I said “Yeah, I had him as a student in zoology.” He came over to me
and shook my hand and he said, “Dr. Loftin, when I took zoology from you, you almost ruined
my college education.” But he said, “I wasn’t applying myself very well, was I?” But he made it,
he was a business man here. So got all levels, you know and various experiences with people,
former instructors have come back and visited and so it always good to see those people and
know that you had them in your life.
Hedgpeth: You were President when Casper Mountain road was re-routed and the Armory was
torn down. How did you deal with this and the ties that the college has with the community?
Loftin: The Armory was a real problem, it was extremely expensive to operate the Armory. It
was situated in the wrong place for efficiency and we worked with the City Council to try to get
something resolved there. The Historical Society wanted it as a big museum and we said, “You
know, how are you going to fund it? How are you going to operate it? You are going to have to
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have insurance, you are going to have to-” you couldn’t heat the darned thing, I mean it was like
a sieve, your heat, you could see heat just go out the windows, roof and every place else.
So anyway we were trying to deal with the City, we knew it was a touchy thing but there
was a city councilman that literally hired a person to come up here, a crew to come up here, and
all of a sudden it was gone. Caused quite a stink in the community, we wanted it gone, we
wanted to replace it someway but we weren’t interested in taking that approach, but anyway, it
was gone.
We needed land to the East for expansion; we didn’t want a major highway splitting the
campus. We had tradeoffs that we wanted to make with the City. We wanted to move the road as
far east as they could, it is a little swampy, over the base of that hill, so that created a problem. I
met with two councilmen and was pleading to work this thing out so we could move that road
east and one of the councilmen said, “Well, what I would prefer to do is you go ahead and build
your campus buildings over there and the city will build an overpass so the students can come
over and I said, “Well, there is one built on the east side of town, and people walk a half mile to
get around it, they don’t want to use it. What do you do with handicap?” Anyway, I threw out
several things and we finally made a deal. This councilman didn’t like the deal but we had
enough councilmen that did. Finally through tradeoffs, we acquired that land and the city, it was
eventually county, went ahead and developed the road on that side. We also tried to get the
YMCA considered in their routing and also, the people, there were about four or five houses
down here that we wanted it routed so that it didn’t go right in front of their house but would
swing out towards campus. It was a lot of work but in our mind it had to be done because we
wanted a complete campus, not divided, not have a dangerous route coming through here, I
didn’t want that unsightly overpass which knowing students, they would have walked all the way
downtown to get around the darned thing. But anyway that is what got them to, I think everyone
was pretty well satisfied with it. We need more land, “we” I am not here anymore. The college
needs some more land and I have recommended a couple of things but I don’t think it will ever
come about.
I saw the University of Oklahoma, they had a neat little campus which was about four
blocks surrounded by little old houses all the way around. Had no place to go. After, well starting
after World War II but then the Korean War, they demanded, they knew we were trying to build
up but how far up can you go? And then they started buying little houses and you would have
thought they were mansions. What it was costing them to buy up out blocks of houses in order to
expand their campus were is was necessary. And I have seen others same way, they get land
locked and I don’t know where we are going to go from here. We’ve owned land, the College
owns land, course onto the South but to develop ingress and egress to develop student movement
would be terribly expensive if not impossible. It would be very inconvenient.
Hedgpeth: Any thoughts on your replacement Les Viara.
Loftin: No, I knew Les, barely. I took no part, at all, in hiring of my replacement. Again that’s
Board function and should be Board function. Les was assistant to the President of University of
Alaska or one of them up there someplace, but I only met Les about three times. They had a
board had a welcoming dinner for he and his wife, I went to that. He took me to lunch one time
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and wanted to know about people who were in Administrative group, what was my assessment
of those people. That was it.
I will say I had a number of instructors come to my house and want to know what I might
be able to do to correct a few things. One said to me, the Board is going to let this institution go
down the toilet because of him. I said, “Don’t undersell the Board, they hired the guy, they are
going to give him a chance. They are going to give him a good chance to succeed.” And if it
doesn’t work, he will be gone. And that’s what happened. I don’t know what was going on. It is
none of my business but we gave him a chance and he was not performing to their standards and
so they released him. That is about all I know of it.
Hedgpeth: Okay, what is your view of Casper College today? [Remember this is the year 2011]
Loftin: Well there are some things, you know, things have changed. I have not been here really
to see the changes and know the philosophy, the reasoning, why certain things were changed the
way they are. I am impressed with the building program right now. I think where they are
building some of these things shows we need more property. But, we still have people coming
through here, well the UWCC program is doing what I had envisioned and tried to convince the
board. I think this is the way it will work.
I think bringing in other institutions in specialty areas, other four year institutions
strengthens the college and gives opportunities to segments of the community that would have
real difficulty getting that education otherwise. I like that. I have met, oh I’ve come to retirement
programs with Randy, Randy was my good buddy. I came to his retirement party and listening to
some of the instructors. I sat at a table with four or five of them and visited with them. I was very
impressed. The quality of the individual, the, you can just feel the intellect seeping out of those
people as you visited with them. I think we have some people here, I wonder why we have them.
Unruh, for instance, a tremendous individual. A real prize and we have had others that way but
you wonder what do we have that makes a person of that quality and that, well he is a great
individual, a great musician, what do we have that keeps that person here and happy? We had
another musician, a young woman, pianist, tremendous. She had played in Moscow, you know,
she was a concert pianist but she came here to teach and she did an excellent job. I wish she had
stayed. But, you know, what I see is still the search for that quality of instructor, the quality of
administrator. A person who’s- I mean, I see the same thing kinda going on that Tim tried to
develop, that I tried to develop and Lee tried to develop. I see it is still here and I don’t know
why.
I know part of it, the legislature wouldn’t fund it, and the commission wouldn’t fund it. I
worry about continuing education. I know they have a deal here and I know some people who
have gone through them, the adults, they are very happy with it. A short types of things, very
specific in what they are doing. But I always had a pride in our evening school and I see that
slipping away. That bothers me. The building program, and I see it right now, they are doing, for
instance the dorms we built were built at a time when all a kid would bring, maybe he would
have a radio to plug in and that was about- well occasionally one would slip in a hot plate but
those dorms had to be replaced because they were retarding instruction, learning and they were
becoming dangerous.
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I mean kids had refrigerators, Television sets and everything you could think of that was
electrical. Their computers, you know they tried to jack-leg some stuff in there so they could
hook up their computers, we could have computer access with them, but it was not sufficient.
So, I don’t know what’s in that dorm but I assume it is wired for everything. WIFI the whole bit
because it is a necessity today. This building is going to get less and less and less use, which
bothers me. What I said yesterday, to me this is the center of education on this campus. It should
be. But when you pick up your IPad, or even your telephone download any book you want and
use it in the privacy and probably when you are driving, but that availability of everything. The
internet! I have talked to some English teachers that just pulling their hair, History teachers. You
can download your theme, you can download your history research, have it printed out and turn
it in and you didn’t do anything but push little buttons. So that becomes a problem, I think, in
education but that is, that’s today, that’s the future. The institution has to go with that. It’s like
Mahatma Gandhi said, “There are my people, I must go for I am their leader.” Well that’s the
way the institution is. We gotta go where learning and education and commerce will have you
going. We have to go there and we should lead them, education has problems with being the
leader because it takes time to develop what needs to be developed. To stay up with business and
industry and peoples’ needs. As I see the institution, the Alumni Association, I am proud we
developed that thing. Tim said “you can’t do it,” which spurred me on. We got it done and I think
it is a viable part of this institution and so I am glad we got that started and its development so
when people have pride in what’s happened to them and where they have been it can only help
the college, community, what have you.
Hedgpeth: Upon your retirement you said you were going to do quite a few things. Have you
been able to do any of those things when you retired?
Loftin: No, well many of them I have not. The reason I retired, I wanted two or three more years
but in about 86, early 86 I came to work, I had a headache. I had a heck of a headache and I came
to work and my vision became blurred and I called Paul, he was my Administrative Assistant,
called Paul and said, “Would you take me to the eye doctor, I can’t see well enough to drive,
there is something wrong.” So he takes me to my eye doctor and he took one look and he said “I
want you to go to this guy over here, this other doctor.” I go over there, he takes one look and he
calls a surgeon in Denver. I had a detached retina. The retina was actually folded over and I was
just seeing a green patch and I could see a little below it, in my left eye.
So my wife bundled me up, she had never driven in Denver but anyway, we got to the
Hospital in Denver and I had surgery that night. The retina was about 2/3 detached. This guy is
known all over this part of the country as a real retina surgeon. Anyway he went in and put in a
scleral buckle, which is a silicone strap they put around the eye ball and then tighten it. They call
it “putting a waist on the eyeball.” That decreases the internal capacity, pushes the- well anyway
he got it attached.
Its procedure and I was flat on my back for about three weeks, in a dark room. Paul and
my secretary, reading things to me, I was trying to respond. I couldn’t see. Well we went through
that and everything was going real well and I thought everything was straightened out. I was at
the play one night and I started seeing what I referred to as a single ring bulls eye. Which are- are
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the floaters, the actual red blood cells that give you the appearance of a little bulls eye.
Thousands of them. And I leaned over to Bev and I said, “I got the same problem in the other
eye.” We bundled up and they called the doctor, so we headed for Denver and the young
physician that was his assistant said “Let’s do cryo-surgery first.” (Cryopexy- surgery that
freezes the area and seals a tear on the retnia). So he froze an area down there and said “Now
come back in the morning and we will see how it works.” I came back the next morning and he
said, “Well that worked, but it is split up on top.” He said “You are going to have to have surgery
again.” So I went through surgery again and there I was three weeks or so, flat on my back in a
dark room, Paul doing my work, helping me get my work done. My Secretary doing all this stuff
and I got back, that was late in the year and I had a commencement coming up. I asked the
Superintendent of Schools if she would give the commencement address. “Oh Yeah.”
Well years before, I am digressing, but years before, I told Libby, “I need a
commencement address, in a file.” So I developed one and she put it in a file. Well anyway, I got
a phone call. We had already gone through commencement practice. I got a phone call, she
couldn’t get out of Washington, D. C. She could get here but it would be about nine- o’clock at
night. So, I well I dig in there and I remembered the address, I said to Libby, “Get me that
commencement address.” She looked and looked and finally found it. I gave that commencement
address and I could hardly see it. But we got through it, but that convinced me that I was a
detriment, really a detriment to this institution. I could not do the job for which I was hired. So I
visited with the wife about it, we had a little place at the lake, and we were out there and I said
“Bev, I think we need to retire.”
She said, “Why?”
I said, “I’m not doing- not able to do what I should be doing as far as the college is
concerned.”
She said, “Well, it is your decision.”
So I thought about it some more and then I went to the Board after one of the Board
meetings and I tendered my resignation. They asked “Why?”
I said, “Well” I told them the same thing I told Bev I said, “You’re not getting your
money’s worth. I cannot, I’m taking up other peoples’ time that should be doing something else
for the college to help me do my job,” and so I said “You’re getting cheated so I’m out of here.”
My Board President said “Are you afraid of the University?” That’s when we were just
developing the UWCC. “Are you afraid of the University”? he said.
I said, “No that would be fun, that would be a treat, that’s not it,” I said, “I gave you my
reason.” So at the end of that year, I retired. I didn’t want to, there were some other things I
thought needed to be done and I wanted to do them but anyway, that ended that part of my life.
Hedgpeth: Did you spend some time, you said you were going to go on a walking tour of
England, Scotland, Wales, and learn to play the guitar. Write.
Loftin: Well I tried the guitar, but I was developing arthritis in my hand so I gave that up. The
wife and I traveled an awful lot. We belonged to a travel club out of Denver that owned their
own airplanes and the whole bit.
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Hedgpeth: Wow.
Loftin: And I told the wife yesterday, “I would like to go back to Keswick, up in the Lake
District again (located in the UK), not this time on a tour but just to get out and walk. We feel at
home in the British Isles, we never had a moment of trepidation. Loved the Lake District. I love
London. I don’t like people, I really don’t like people but in London, very little crime.
Pickpocketing is about the only crime they put up with.
We walked, the first day we walked 18 miles. Worn out, but here is all this history.
Having lived through World War II, and the Battle of Britain and all that. I saw so many things, I
have read a lot of English History. My mother was Welch, my name is Lloyd, my younger
brother is Floyd, Floyd Eldon. My older brother is Wilbur. They are all Welch names. If you ask
my mother, “What are you?” She said, “I’m American.” But somewhere in her, she got that
Welch out and our names reflect that. When I was in Wales, I had a good time in Wales, I felt
like it was home. The Welch people are very common and down to earth, music loving
individuals and I got to see a lot of Druid stuff. If you don’t care, I will tell you a story. But
anyway, Ireland, I was very disappointed in Ireland. I felt sorry for Ireland, when we were there,
it was the second poorest country in the European Union. So I felt very sorry for the people. And
everything was run down, people were sad, so I didn’t really get a good picture, I don’t think of
Ireland. Scotland, I love Scotland. We traveled to Scotland several times. Once we took Bev’s
dad to Scotland. Edinburgh, we go there two days after the Tattoo (a ceremony performed by
Military Musicians
http://www.edinburghtattootickets.com/edinburgh-military-tattoo-history.html#.VGEDmPnF8c8
) and I always wanted to go to that, to the Irish Tattoo, but anyway we didn’t make that one. But,
you know to be around Bobby Burns’ walking’s and oh, the Scottish people have always
intrigued me with their independence. Their drive, their verve, you know I just love them, so we
had a lot of fun in Scotland.
We took a trip this last year, a boat trip, from Switzerland to Holland and I always wanted
to go to Europe. I had never been before and that, I got to go past a place where my brother
crossed the Rhine River on the Remagen Bridge (bridge built in WWI) but it was in the river just
then so we got to crawl over the framework but I felt a special feeling as our boat went past the
point where I knew he stood there defending his country.
Canada, we have traveled a lot in Canada. I have never been to Mexico, nor do I want to.
We have traveled quite a bit in Canada. So we have done a lot of traveling. And when I retired,
we took off and I remember, I said “we are going to take our time on this trip, we are going to
take month. We are going to take our time.” Well we drove seven hundred miles the first day
and she said “I’m sure glad we’re taking it easy.” But anyway, we went up through Minnesota,
into Canada, all the way across Canada, back down to Niagara Falls and up through New York,
Maine and all the way down the coast to Florida, and then back up through Arkansas and then
back home. Tiring trip but I had never been to that part of the country and so I enjoyed going
through the East. And I’m a Civil War buff so I got to see quite a few things on that trip that I
had read about and to the Revolution Era so I got to see quite a bit of that.
Got to Hawaii finally, my granddaughter got married and had to get married in Hawaii so
we visited three islands while we were there. Other things, I didn’t get to do a lot of things I
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wanted to study the grasses of Wyoming and never got around to it. I look at them, and what
have you, think about them, and compare them. I was educated in Illinois which is the, and lived
there for many years, which was the Great Plains. Reading about grass, andropogons (genus of
grasses), that you could stand on your horse back and barely see over the top of the grass. Well I
studied grass, it is one of the things that I studied was the grass at 10:39:53 Edgerton Park. But I
have always had a love of grasses, I’ve got a bunch of them at my place right now that I am
trying to develop but I never did really get to study them the way I wanted to. No, I didn’t do a
lot of things, part of them was because I was having health problems. I had, well we retired in
’91 and I had colon cancer, had surgery resection. I had a six-way by-pass, still have some eye
problems, not as bad but I developed Chromes disease and took about, oh almost two years to get
that diagnosed and then after that to get it under control. So part of it, I’m lazy I guess.
Hedgpeth: I don’t think so!
Loftin: Part of it, you know I have had some health problems, and I told the wife, that it was a
good thing I retired or I would have ignored all these things. Which I would have. Then they
caught up with me. No, we’ve developed little place at the lake bought a boat. The old saying is
“A boat owner is happy twice in his life. Once when he buys it and once when he sells it.” But
we have a lot of fun out of it. The kids, the grandkids particularly, have a lot of fun with it. Have
a little house out there, and have enjoyed developing it and building decks and all that kind of
stuff. But, I think when you are living your life retired or otherwise, you kinda go where you are
led and you don’t get to do everything that you want to do. And I didn’t. But I’m not done yet.
Hedgpeth: Not yet, not yet, those grasses are still there. I want to go back, you mentioned
yesterday morning when we started, and you just mentioned two of your brothers, how many
siblings did you have?
Loftin: Two brothers, I had an older brother and a younger brother. The older brother, six years
older, he, we didn’t get along too well, as kids, as kids don’t. I remember one time when a little
buddy of mine, who was a brother to my brother’s buddy and we wanted to tag around with them
and we said, “We ought to play detective.” And they said, “Okay”. Well, we were living out in
the country and I said we lived out in a camp, an oil camp, and they said, “Well, we will tie you
up and then you can get untied and see if you can find us.”
Well they tied us up and put us in a meter shed, which is an old tin shed where meter goes
through, gas line, and they tied us very well. We had a heck of a time getting out of there but just
little things like that, but anyway, we were not overly close. He graduated and wanted to go to
college, but he got a job, got married and then I remember, we were in Church, Mom didn’t go,
the three of us went Dad, Wilbur and I and we drove in the drive-way, mother leaned out the
kitchen window and said, “The Japanese just bombed Pearl Harbor.” The next morning, bright
and early, my brother got up and drove to the county seat and enlisted. I saw him, maybe twice,
between then and 1945. He was with Patton’s third army, went over the Remagen Bridge, then
they bundled him up, he was over in Europe, but they bundled up two divisions, who had been in
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combat, severe combat, gave them thirty day’s leave, put them on a boat on V-J day he was at
Iwo Jima, and they were to invade Japan.
He came back, by then he had his little daughter, and Dad wanted him to go to college on
the GI bill and he said, I have a family, my obligations to my family, I can’t do it. He would have
been a good one, he would have been a good one. He went through pilot training and then the
bulls broke out, they pulled all those guys out and put them back in the infantry. So he was no
dummy, he was a smart guy. He made more money by accident, than I did on purpose. He
worked for Exxon, in off-shore drilling. He was sent to the North Sea, he helped develop housing
on platforms, because he knew what people wanted. My younger brother was an individual that I
often think he was sired by somebody else. He was so different. He was eleven years younger
than me, but as an example, when he went into high school, we had a four year high school in
that community. When he went into a freshman to enroll as a freshman, he handed his councilor
a list of courses he wanted to take, the teachers he wanted. The teacher said, “Why, why are you
going through this?” He said, “I want to go to the Missouri School of Mines of Metallurgy, get
my degree in metallurgy and I want to work for Reynolds Metals in Richmond, Virginia. That’s
he did. I mean Bam, bam, bam, and then he got his Master’s well, he went through ROTC at the
same time. He did a four year metallurgical program, plus ROTC in four years. It was a five year
program, so needless to say he very bright boy. He worked for Reynolds’s Metal, he retired from
Reynolds. Still living in Richmond. Those are my brothers, we are very close now, and my oldest
brother lives in Lafayette, Indiana, and retired from Exon. So that’s my brothers.
Hedgpeth: Is there anything else that you would like to add to this interview, that we haven’t
covered?
Loftin: No, I guess the only thing that I feel is that I left with things undone. And I think most
people probably do that. You will probably do that, because you still have things that you’ve got
an itch and you haven’t been able to scratch. But you know that you can’t do it, and you walk off
and try to find something else. I’ve enjoyed my retirement, other than all the surgeries and what
have you that I have had to put up with but I made it through it so thank God for that. We enjoy
our winters, we go to Arizona, have for 21 years. We own a house or a Condo, on the golf
course. Don’t play golf, neither of us but it is a nice big back yard and I don’t have to maintain it.
I try to enjoy my kids, grandkids, and my great grandkids. But I don’t want to interfere with their
lives. My oldest son runs a construction company, owns a construction company and it is very
successful. My younger son got his degree in power electricity, and electronics and he had
worked for Western Power Authority ever since he graduated. Two daughters, very precious, one
of them happens to be a nurse. She just passed the test to be a charge nurse. She works at the
University Hospital, the University Of Utah Hospital, in Salt Lake. The Nurse has a daughter and
she is something else. I have two grandsons, the oldest son, one has a little boy who is a pistol.
My daughter, unfortunately, is bi-polar and she has some real problems still but she is coping
alright. She is finally realizes that she has to be on her medications, and she is on them now and
things are working out reasonably well. She lives just north of Salt Lake. So those are the people
I try to keep up with too, the wife’s family. Of Course, I am very close to them. And of course
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one is going through problems with breast surgery and she has two kids. A little girl three years
old, she is something else, she is afraid of me but she likes to boss me around.
As far as the relatives are concerned, I guess they are scattered around, here and yon but I
got away from them. That’s about it, I guess. I just keep watching this place and things that are
taking place that we kinda thought about and so many people in the community kinda urged us
that way and that is what you’re doing.
I was thinking last night, I remember I was writing grant proposals and I had an
instructor, English instructor, come to me and she was from Riverton, born and lived in Riverton
and she had gone to one of the big blowouts that they have on the reservation and Carolyn came
back and she liked to sit and visit anyway, she said, “I went to this and all that I could think of, I
could see these older people, some of them that could not speak English, they spoke Shoshoni or
whatever. Young kids that didn’t look, didn’t dress, I mean they were dressing like in Riverton or
Lander or here, she said, “What we are losing, as those people die off, we are losing a part of our
culture,” and she said, “It bothers me.” Well, I thought about it quite a while and finally I wrote a
proposal, it was to NEA- no, anyway Arts, Federal Arts, proposal to buy a small Winnebago, the
front part of it would be where we could have interviews, the back part, the bedroom, the toilet,
the little kitchen, the rest of it so we could drive around the State. Contact historical Societies,
County Historical Society, have them contact people that they think would add to the history and
culture of the State.
I had instructors and I talked about it, Carolyn talked about it, wanted to do this on their
own time, weekends, whatever. And I was turned down. The University got it and they published
a little book which is an inane outfit, but anyway, they got the grant. I didn’t. That’s always
bothered me but at least this is helping to make up for that type of thing.
Hedgpeth: If we can continue, absolutely.
Loftin: You know as a biologist, when you die the brain is mush. The soul lives on, and what is
lost. It is a tragedy that I think of my dad and my mother. I sent my dad a tape recorder one time
and a whole box of tapes. I said, “Dad you sit down sometime and talk about your childhood,
your work, you know, your growing up, your marriage and your family.” After he died, I found it
still in the box. But the stories that guy would tell about his life, his work, but that happens in
every life. It’s gone, we lose some richness in our culture, in our community that is gone forever.
And I know you feel that or you wouldn’t be here. But that is one of the things that I guess,
really bug me. All the rest, like I was Dean of Faculty then, when I was writing those proposal
and that’s bugged me ever since and it still does. And I say, I’m glad to see this and I know some
of the others, or I’m assuming some of the others, I think I’ve heard that they’re doing- trying to
do the same thing.
Hedgpeth: We have a whole list of potential interviews, you’re on the list.
Loftin: I have been on several lists. [Laughs]
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Hedgpeth: This is a good list, you are on it. It’s finding time, finding people to do the interviews
and convincing members of the community that this is necessary.
Loftin: Yes, I’m sure that is true.
Hedgpeth: Just like we talked about yesterday afternoon, convincing Miss Mary Alice.
[Hedgpeth] “I want to talk to you.”
[Mary Alice] “Oh yeah, I’ve nothing to say.”
[Hedgpeth] “Yes, you do.”
Loftin: Oh I know, I know. She is a very private person. Dick was just the opposite, outgoing,
but Mary Alice is a very quiet, close individual and I’ve known her for a many, many years. I
would like to sit down, you know more people around here than I do, and I would like to sit
down and try to think of some people that, I think could add to what you are trying to.
Hedgpeth: When we are done here, I can show you our list.
Loftin: Okay, good
Hedgpeth: Yeah absolutely. Are we done here?
Loftin: I guess so, I have rambled all over the place.
Hedgpeth: Well I think you’ve done an excellent interview, having your personal history and
getting your experience and what led you to Casper College.
Loftin: You know, I think I have to mention this, if anyone ever asked me “Who had the most
influence on your life,” it would have to be my parents, though I have met a lot of influential
people but I think the ones that really established me into the person I am, was my mom and dad.
My dad was a hard working fool, and he expected you to work. Some of my earliest memories
are being in the garden hoeing weeds. I remember, I went to church, we always went to church,
anyway, the sermon was based on “If you have faith, you will move mountains.” That bothered
me and we were going home and I was leaning over the front seat, Dad was driving, and I said
“Dad, how in the world, do you really think if you had enough faith, you could move the
Arbuckle Mountains,”, which was mountains in Southern Oklahoma, which was the biggest one
I had ever seen. He said “Yeah.”
I said, “Dad I have problems with that. I don’t see how in the world, me, If I had that
faith, I could move those mountains.”
Dad said “Look, if you have enough faith, you’re going to move those mountains if you
have to get a shovel and a wheel barrow to move them.” Well, you know I was probably seven
years old but it hit home and that’s the way I was taught, morality, work ethics, what have you.
My mother was a very kind, sweet, hard working woman and I probably spent more time and
talked more with my mother than with my dad because my dad worked. They established my
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whole moral structure, my ethics and I have to say they were the greatest influence on my life
and I think I could say the same for my brothers. Just hard working common people that went
out and did what had to be done. I was taught by parables and - well I’m wasting your tape.
Hedgpeth: No way! I think we did an excellent job here and thank you very much Dr. Loftin for
coming in.
Loftin: I appreciate your interest in it and I don’t know what I have contributed but as I say, I
have this feeling that there is so much out there that we need to preserve and I applaud you for
the work you are doing here.
Hedgpeth: We thank you, we are trying.
[Audio Part 5 ends]
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Transcript of an Oral Interview with Dr. Lloyd Loftin, Casper College President, 1961-1979
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Teri Hedgpeth, Western History Center Archivist
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