270 10 9760 https://caspercollege.cvlcollections.org/files/original/8765e063ee58175074c4c0832d25f4f5.jpeg ee42170924dfb6014cb67f4676c30438 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource B.P. Amoco Utility Division Photographs Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/</a> Subject The topic of the resource Casper (Wyo.) -- History -- Pictorial works. Description An account of the resource This collection consists of a series of B.P. Amoco Utility Division Photographs. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource B.P. Amoco Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. B.P. Amoco Records, NCA 01.ii.2005.01 WyCaC US. Casper College Archives and Special Collections. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context NCA 01.ii.2005.01_BPAmocoRecords_Photo Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. Joe Deschamps gifted these records to Casper College on May 3, 2005. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Photographic print Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource B.P. Amoco Utility Division Photograph Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/</a> Date Created Date of creation of the resource. 10-15-1963 Subject The topic of the resource Casper (Wyo.) -- History -- Pictorial works Description An account of the resource Dismantling the smokestack of No2 boiler house Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource B.P. Amoco Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. B.P. Amoco Records, NCA 01.ii.2005.01 WyCaC US. Casper College Archives and Special Collections Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context NCA 01.ii.2005.01_BPAmocoRecords_UtilityPhotos_105 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource JPEG Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. B.P, Amoco; Joe Deschamps https://caspercollege.cvlcollections.org/files/original/76035368fbd255b4a27da6818d62d3d1.jpeg 912886f3eb957813c8212a0a93d1be3c Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource B.P. Amoco Utility Division Photographs Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/</a> Subject The topic of the resource Casper (Wyo.) -- History -- Pictorial works. Description An account of the resource This collection consists of a series of B.P. Amoco Utility Division Photographs. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource B.P. Amoco Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. B.P. Amoco Records, NCA 01.ii.2005.01 WyCaC US. Casper College Archives and Special Collections. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context NCA 01.ii.2005.01_BPAmocoRecords_Photo Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. Joe Deschamps gifted these records to Casper College on May 3, 2005. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Photographic print Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource B.P. Amoco Utility Division Photograph Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/</a> Date Created Date of creation of the resource. 10-15-1963 Subject The topic of the resource Casper (Wyo.) -- History -- Pictorial works Description An account of the resource Dismantling the smokestack of No2 boiler house Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource B.P. Amoco Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. B.P. Amoco Records, NCA 01.ii.2005.01 WyCaC US. Casper College Archives and Special Collections Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context NCA 01.ii.2005.01_BPAmocoRecords_UtilityPhotos_106 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource JPEG Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. B.P, Amoco; Joe Deschamps https://caspercollege.cvlcollections.org/files/original/1de35b04c050c854e025ffe1b9eb2a69.jpeg 7cec61df2bdaca7e968549dc6aaec97c Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource B.P. Amoco Utility Division Photographs Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/</a> Subject The topic of the resource Casper (Wyo.) -- History -- Pictorial works. Description An account of the resource This collection consists of a series of B.P. Amoco Utility Division Photographs. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource B.P. Amoco Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. B.P. Amoco Records, NCA 01.ii.2005.01 WyCaC US. Casper College Archives and Special Collections. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context NCA 01.ii.2005.01_BPAmocoRecords_Photo Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. Joe Deschamps gifted these records to Casper College on May 3, 2005. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Photographic print Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource B.P. Amoco Utility Division Photograph Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/</a> Date Created Date of creation of the resource. 10-15-1963 Subject The topic of the resource Casper (Wyo.) -- History -- Pictorial works Description An account of the resource Dismantling the smokestack of No2 boiler house Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource B.P. Amoco Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. B.P. Amoco Records, NCA 01.ii.2005.01 WyCaC US. Casper College Archives and Special Collections Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context NCA 01.ii.2005.01_BPAmocoRecords_UtilityPhotos_107 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource JPEG Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. B.P, Amoco; Joe Deschamps https://caspercollege.cvlcollections.org/files/original/c803ddd95a8d73ab6f310557ef1c9aa2.jpeg ebf3ca1a1751dc59fcb3bc0d2f6ae8ae Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource B.P. Amoco Utility Division Photographs Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/</a> Subject The topic of the resource Casper (Wyo.) -- History -- Pictorial works. Description An account of the resource This collection consists of a series of B.P. Amoco Utility Division Photographs. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource B.P. Amoco Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. B.P. Amoco Records, NCA 01.ii.2005.01 WyCaC US. Casper College Archives and Special Collections. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context NCA 01.ii.2005.01_BPAmocoRecords_Photo Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. Joe Deschamps gifted these records to Casper College on May 3, 2005. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Photographic print Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource B.P. Amoco Utility Division Photograph Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/</a> Date Created Date of creation of the resource. 10-15-1963 Subject The topic of the resource Casper (Wyo.) -- History -- Pictorial works Description An account of the resource Dismantling the smokestack of No2 boiler house Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource B.P. Amoco Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. B.P. Amoco Records, NCA 01.ii.2005.01 WyCaC US. Casper College Archives and Special Collections Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context NCA 01.ii.2005.01_BPAmocoRecords_UtilityPhotos_108 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource JPEG Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. B.P, Amoco; Joe Deschamps https://caspercollege.cvlcollections.org/files/original/92bb07fff11db08cb107cfaa6e738c8c.jpeg 15acaea8b7450deaba26af4ed0f88dc7 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource B.P. Amoco Utility Division Photographs Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/</a> Subject The topic of the resource Casper (Wyo.) -- History -- Pictorial works. Description An account of the resource This collection consists of a series of B.P. Amoco Utility Division Photographs. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource B.P. Amoco Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. B.P. Amoco Records, NCA 01.ii.2005.01 WyCaC US. Casper College Archives and Special Collections. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context NCA 01.ii.2005.01_BPAmocoRecords_Photo Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. Joe Deschamps gifted these records to Casper College on May 3, 2005. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Photographic print Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource B.P. Amoco Utility Division Photograph Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/</a> Date Created Date of creation of the resource. 10-15-1963 Subject The topic of the resource Casper (Wyo.) -- History -- Pictorial works Description An account of the resource Dismantling the smokestack of No2 boiler house Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource B.P. Amoco Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. B.P. Amoco Records, NCA 01.ii.2005.01 WyCaC US. Casper College Archives and Special Collections Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context NCA 01.ii.2005.01_BPAmocoRecords_UtilityPhotos_109 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource JPEG Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. B.P, Amoco; Joe Deschamps https://caspercollege.cvlcollections.org/files/original/f563bf9703b6f6ed6c25c1454493c379.jpeg fe427fc178e8cd8b023487b90303944e Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource B.P. Amoco "?" Division Photographs Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/</a> Subject The topic of the resource Casper (Wyo.) -- History -- Pictorial works. Description An account of the resource This collection consists of a series of B.P. Amoco "?" Division Photographs. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource B.P. Amoco Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. B.P. Amoco Records, NCA 01.ii.2005.01 WyCaC US. Casper College Archives and Special Collections. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context NCA 01.ii.2005.01_BPAmocoRecords_Photo Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. Joe Deschamps gifted these records to Casper College on May 3, 2005. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Photographic print Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource B.P. Amoco "?" Division Photograph Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/</a> Date Created Date of creation of the resource. 1925(?) Subject The topic of the resource Casper (Wyo.) -- History -- Pictorial works Description An account of the resource GMC truck with solid tires carrying a tractor with treads. Unknown processing units in the background. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource B.P. Amoco Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. B.P. Amoco Records, NCA 01.ii.2005.01 WyCaC US. Casper College Archives and Special Collections Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context NCA 01.ii.2005.01_BPAmocoRecords_Questionmark_01 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource JPEG Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. B.P, Amoco; Joe Deschamps https://caspercollege.cvlcollections.org/files/original/d3d9872805ba7d4fc8cef74d2b15e07d.png 11742bbf63781124345cec305eadbe40 Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Digital Newspaper Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Hearing the world around us Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <div class="element-text five columns omega"> <p><a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/</a></p> </div> Date Created Date of creation of the resource. 2022-12-01 Type The nature or genre of the resource Text/Image Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Bailey Menzel Language A language of the resource ENG Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Chinook Student Newspaper, CCA 08.i.2023.01 WyCaC US. Casper College Archives and Special Collections. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Dec_HearingTheWorld Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource PNG Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Casper College https://caspercollege.cvlcollections.org/files/original/032448676190c3cdd6c61d4fc68e1f35.png 73dc8c9efff583e028aa55d09aba1b4e Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Digital Newspaper Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Casper College redStone Reecital and Gallery Series Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <div class="element-text five columns omega"> <p><a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/</a></p> </div> Date Created Date of creation of the resource. 2021-11-01 Type The nature or genre of the resource Image/Text Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Baylee Darling Language A language of the resource ENG Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Chinook Student Newspaper, CCA 08.i.2023.01 WyCaC US. Casper College Archives and Special Collections. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Nov_RedStoneRecital Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource PNG Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Casper College https://caspercollege.cvlcollections.org/files/original/f62068f3d3e7d85590b7a54b0438c444.mp3 8665569d0607e672d4600e9b4b2d21ad https://caspercollege.cvlcollections.org/files/original/660ee38e5128d2e1f2e3d0e5c6e0b24f.m4a 1db8c3ca2f56acd6e6c3ddada1a9b937 https://caspercollege.cvlcollections.org/files/original/77e219d941798cb0a86c4e426b4c4c0a.pdf 2bf4166c9c492255be38a5a9bdc40957 PDF Text Text Wyoming Symphony Oral History Project Tom Rea interviewing Rebecca Hein, September 21, 2022 Date transcribed: February 17, 2023 Tom: So, Becky, could you tell us about your, when-when did you first start playing with the with the, was it the Casper Civic Symphony still when you started? Rebecca: Yeah, I had been playing the cello since fourth grade 'cause that was when we had the chance to join orchestra or band and choose our instrument. And, during at least some of that time, I'd been taking private lessons. Tom: Mmhmm. Rebecca: And I guess the the string teachers in town kind of knew who might be ready to play in the Civic Symphony. I'd been playing in the Youth Symphony. Well, I don't know, maybe I joined the same year, my sophomore year? Anyway, I was invited to play in the Civic Symphony, and my interest in the cello and music was at kind of a low point. And what I was really on fire about at the beginning of that year was a possible trip to Spain that my second year Spanish teacher was talking about. So my mother, who of course didn't want to see me quit music, sort of—and I wasn't going to be able to earn enough money for this trip just working at the family business. I was going to have to find some other source of money, so she very casually pointed out, since I had declined to play in the symphony, that they paid. So of course I joined. Tom: (chuckles) Rebecca: And played the first concert, I think it was probably in September. And Rex Eggleston was conducting at that time. He was the conductor, I think Curtis Peacock came to town that year. That would have been the fall of ... 1971? Tom: Uh-huh. Rebecca: And he [Peacock] was, I think the the assistant conductor or something like that. Rex Eggleston, E-G-G-L-E-S-T-O-N, was, at that time, the head of the public school strings in Casper. A really excellent violist, principal viola in the symphony when he wasn't conducting, and a really wonderful guyTom: Yeah. Yeah. �Rebecca: So, I had a really great start, playing under Rex that year. Tom: Oh, okay. And who did you, before we get into the symphony, so who who did you have for a teacher? Before, you know, before then? Who did you take lessons from? Rebecca: Well, I remember studying with Dorotha Becker, who was also concertmaster [first chair, first violin, and also leader of the entire string section] of the Civic Symphony at that time, and kind of the mainstay of string teaching in town. Tom: Mmhmm. Rebecca: I remember she taught orchestra at Grant School when I was in fourth grade, and when it was time for me to take private lessons, that was, I think she was the only person in town who could really do that, until a cello teacher came to town whose name was Rebecca Rennecker. I'm not sure how her last name was spelled. And she became principal cello of the symphony. There was a little bit of trouble over that because the existing principal cellist, who had served long and well and was quite competent, his name was Sidney Wallingford. Was kind of pushed aside, I felt, and he felt, and I think he continued to play for a few years before he quit. Anyway, Rebecca Rennecker was my teacher through the rest of high school until I switched, I must have switched at the beginning of my senior year to driving down to Laramie to study with the cello professor there, David Tomatz T-O-M-A-T-Z. So all through the winter, Sid Wallingford and I drove down to Laramie together, we would take turns driving, to take our lessons. Tom: Did you spend the night down there? Rebecca: No, I think we drove home the same day. Tom: Uh-huh. Rebecca: I'm sure we did. Tom: I remember listening to you play the cello in Barbara Dobos' living room when you were about 18. Rebecca: I remember doing that, yeah. Tom: You were a wonderful cello player for a long time. We'll get to that later, so. Where was, there, when you were in, at Grant School, when you were in the schools in Casper, was there, was there music instruction in the schools? Just orchestra, not private lessons through the �schools, right? But the kids could be in bands and was that part of the instructional day? Or was that like a after school activity like sports? Rebecca: No, that was a class during the day, as I recall. Tom: Right, so you could be in a orchestra class or a band? Yeah, that's sort of the, I guess, when our kids were there, too. And so, you started with Rex and then Curtis comes in when you're still in high school, were there are very many other high school kids? And you were in the cello section. You were not yet principal cellist. Is that right? Rebecca: Correct. Tom: And were there any other high school kids in the symphony then? Rebecca: Yeah, I recall Debbie Johnson, who's now Debbie Bovie. Tom: Oh. Rebecca: She's about my age, and she went to Kelly Walsh [high school in Casper]. Tom: Yeah, I know her, uh-huh. Rebecca: And John Niethamer, N-I-E-T-H-A-M-E-R, he was a year older than I was, but he was in the symphony. Tom: Uh-huh. Rebecca: And I’m trying to think what other cellists, there was a principal bass for a while, a very nice man named Joe Corrigan, and Joe had a younger brother named Gaylen. I think G-AY-L-E-N, who was around my age, and I'm sure Gaylen must have played [cello] in the symphony at some time 'cause I remember playing with him and it wouldn't have been in high school orchestra, I know that. So it had to have been either Youth or Civic Symphony, or, more likely, both. Tom: So these were all cello players or these were a variety of instruments? Rebecca: Cellists. I had plenty of violinist friends as well, whose names I recall, if you want me to mention them. Tom: Sure. �Rebecca: OK, well, there was a student at Casper College whose name was Carol Tumbleson. She was really good. There was a, I don't know if she was a student at Casper College or older, but she wasn't that old. Her name was Lynette Ketcham, K-E-T-C-H-A-M. I'm seeing the photo of the symphony from this time, I think it was from when I was a senior in high school and I'm just seeing their faces. There was Jane Gerberding. Her husband or excuse me, her father was a Lutheran pastor in town, and he used to review symphony performances in the ‘80s [for the Casper Star-Tribune]. That was later on. But Jane was a good friend of mine. She was a year older than me. Susan Cheney, I looked at the math and I figured she must be either a younger sister of Dick Cheney or maybe a cousin. I don't know. Tom: Hm. Rebecca: She went to Kelly Walsh. There was a girl who was really talented; her name was Sharon Street. She was a violist. A really excellent violist, just one of these people, it's like, it seems like they never practice and they're always better than you are. And maybe she did practice and I just didn't know it, but she was extremely talented. And then also in that photo, I saw somebody in the trombone section by the name of Brian Brown, who was my age. And I can't think of who else. Tom: That's a lot. I wonder what they're all doing. That's interesting. And your mom was in the orchestra, right? Rebecca: Correct. She played viola. She took up viola in mid-life because, expressly because, orchestras never have enough violas, and she knew she was not going to be able to get really good if she took up the instrument, you know, not as a child. And so of course, she indeed had the opportunity to play in the symphony, because it's quite true that there's kind of a chronic shortage of good viola players. Tom: And so, had she-she never played strings before taking this instrument up when she was in her mid-life? Rebecca: I don't know. In her late 40s probably. Let me think, she played piano forever. She had played piano since she was a little girl, so she was a musician already. But it's a pretty big jump from piano to a stringed instrument. Tom: Yeah, I'll say wow. When I knew your mom, she was playing in the symphony. So what was it like being in the symphony with your mom? Rebecca: Oh, it was fine. It was great. I was so happy that she had a way to enjoy herself by playing in the orchestra, 'cause she, she and my father were very supportive of the orchestra and �would house import players and sell season tickets at their family business, Lange's Bookshop, and contribute. At least, well, their names in the program are pretty high-up in terms of the list of donors, so they were contributing in that way. At a higher proportion of their income than a lot of people. But you have to remember that a lot of those people that showed up at sort of modest levels of contribution, some of them showed up at the symphony balls and the other fundraisers and spent a lot of money at the auctions and things, and that didn't really show up in the list of contributors in the program, and those lists were sorted according to how much money the people gave. Tom: Yeah, different levels of, yeah, right. That's interesting. And was ... [there] already a symphony ball every year by then? Rebecca: I think probably, yeah. Tom: And were there any other adults in the symphony who you knew through your parents, or who were friends or parents of your friends or anything like that, you know? I'm trying to see if, you know, if it felt like these were people you knew anyway, some of them. You know what I mean? Rebecca: Well, of course I knew Sid Wallingford. Rick Rongstad would come up from Colorado. He wasn't that many years older than me, but I suppose he qualified as an adult. I guess, at that point, there was a woman named Mildred Brehm. B-R-E-H-M, I believe. She, I think, was principal second violin for quite a while. And of course, Rex. When he wasn't conducting, he was right there at the head of the viola section. And I just cannot overemphasize what a wonderful man he was. He was such a good teacher and so encouraging and so goodnatured. He was a real asset to the musical scene in Casper, I think. Tom: That's nice. Yeah. I knew him years later when I was the school's reporter for the [Casper] Star-Tribune and Rex was the head of I think not just music, but all arts stuff for the district, for the school district. Rebecca: Oh. Tom: Yeah, Mildred Brehm. B-R-E-H-M? Rebecca: That's correct. Tom: I wonder if she might have been the husband of the guy that my father-in-law, Derb Scott, worked for in the oil business? The wife? Did I say husband? Okay, that's interesting. Rebecca: Oh, and Rex’s wife, Connie, played principal bassoon for a while. �Tom: Okay. So, you started your sophomore year, junior year, senior year. And then you went to and so, did the orchestra change at all or you did? Were you feeling you were getting better During that time? Rebecca: Well, let me tell you what happened to me at the end of my sophomore year. First of all, throughout the year I became so in love with playing in an orchestra that I pretty much forgot about the trip to Spain. And all year long, every Sunday afternoon, I would play string quartets [two violins, viola and cello] with friends of mine from the Youth Symphony in my parents’ basement. Every Sunday afternoon as I recall, and we would play for hours and hours and hours and we had our fun pieces, our favorite pieces that we played every week, so you can imagine we got pretty good at them. Especially with Susan Cheney on first violin, she was quite good. So there was a particular Mozart quartet, I do not remember which one, but we were playing it one day. We’d been playing it for weeks, and there was a moment at which it was perfect. We-we were all together. There was no effort involved. We were all feeling the beat together and the sound we were putting out was perfectly blended. I swear it just was just one of those moments where everything comes together and and I was, I was struck. I don't know how else to put it. It felt like the sky had opened up, and a beam of light had come down and focused itself on the top of my head. And I was, I was like the Ancient Mariner or something, you know? [Referring to the poem by Samuel Taylor Coleridge, "The Rime of the Ancient Mariner," in which the Ancient Mariner had one story to tell, and had to tell it to everyone he met.] I couldn't think about anything else. Suddenly I had this moment of wanting moments of beauty like that, as many as I could have for the rest of my life. Tom: Yeah. Rebecca: And-and I, and my-my brain put it into a sort of a mathematical statement, like, "Okay, you want more of these beautiful moments? This particular beautiful moment happened because our collective skill had reached a certain point." So the way to predispose or, you know, raise the odds, for more of those beautiful moments is to increase my skill, and the way to increase my skill is to practice as much as I can, and and literally overnight I became a practicing dynamo and I kind of pushed aside my, um, studies. For the next few years of high school, I didn't flunk out, but my grades probably could have been better than they were. And every spare minute I had, I practiced. And that, in practical terms, that meant for my last two years of high school, I would go to school and then I would walk downtown and work at the family business until closing time, come home, eat supper, help with chores, practice the cello till bedtime, not do my homework. Yeah. Because I-I wanted a career in music, in performance, and I knew I was really far behind to have that ambition. You're supposed to start when you're 5 or whatever. Here I was, 17 years old, or 16, I guess, and I knew I had to catch up and so I was both inspired, and I was also, I guess you could say, worried or knew how hard I was going to have to work. So in that �moment of perfection in the string quartets, I think basically I got my vision for my life, even though I hadn't been conscious of being on a vision quest or anything like that. Tom: Uh-huh. Rebecca: So I ... just had to major in cello performance. Tom: Uh-huh. Rebecca: And a lot of people. Not a lot, a few, including my teacher at UW [University of Wyoming], they sort of tried to talk me, not exactly out of majoring in cello performance, but into adding teacher certification. Tom: Mmhmm. Rebecca: So that as my teacher said, "Suppose you get married and your husband moves to a little town and there aren't any playing opportunities, what are you going to do? If you have your teacher certification at least then you'd be able to teach in the schools." Well, I knew I would be miserable teaching in the public schools, so I said no, I want to perform. I held to that for a very long time. Well, and I never did teach in the public schools. And there are very few performers who don't teach, both because they, I think, to some degree get pulled into it 'cause it's interesting and they want to share what they know, and to some degree because it's additional income. Tom: Sure. Ah, that's- thank you for telling me that story. That's how wonderful and so um. You went to UW? Rebecca: That's correct, for three years. And during those three years, I came back to the Civic Symphony as an import for many concerts, maybe all of them. Tom: Mmhmm. Rebecca: That was fun. Tom: And were you majoring in cello performance at UW? Rebecca: I was. Tom: And who was your teacher there? Rebecca: David Tomatz T-O-M-A-T-Z. He was also head of the department. �Tom: Oh yeah, you mean? Yeah, I think you mentioned him in your Casper article, [article published on WyoHistory.org about the history of the symphony]. Was he a conductor in Casper? For a while also? No? Rebecca: No, he was conductor of the University Symphony. Tom: Okay. Rebecca: The main things he did was teach the cello lessons, play in the Western Arts Trio, which was the faculty piano trio at UW, and teach a few students. [a piano trio is piano, violin and cello] Tom: So you were aRebecca: And fair amount-go ahead. Tom: You were a private student of his as well, or you were, or you were, or that was part of your ... regular UW education? Rebecca: Yeah, that was part of my, you could take it as a class, basically. Private lessons, well, they’re one-on-one. I forget what they-applied, that was it, [they called them] applied lessons, for a certain number of credits. Tom: Uh-huh. And was he a good teacher? Rebecca: He was all right. I think his mind was elsewhere than teaching and performing. He was okay, but at the end of three years, I was frustrated by two things. I felt like I wasn't learning enough in my lessons and I was, I think, the only cellist of any ability in the department, so I didn't really have colleagues. Tom: Uh-huh. Rebecca: And I wanted to be in a situation where I was surrounded by student cellists who were better than I was. Tom: Mmhmm. Rebecca: So [that] I had room to learn and a teacher who was a better teacher and a better performer than David Tomatz was. He was really made for schmoozing money out of little, old- �rich, little old ladies. That's really what he was made for. And that's really what he did best. Probably, you know, raised quite a lot of money for the department and the university orchestra. He was a very good looking man and he was charming and you know, I'm sure he knew how to schmooze money out of people. So he was divided. So at at the end of three years I transferred to the University of Oregon. Tom: Uh-huh. Rebecca: Because in the region, I'd been to music camps in Montana, and I'd heard about the cello teacher at Oregon and been impressed with what I'd heard. And actually, I think it was during my sophomore year at UW, that I flew out there, spent my own money to do it. I had a friend that I'd gone to high school with who I’d been corresponding with, who was going to the University of Oregon, who met me at the airport, put me up in her apartment, gave me a ride to the university so I could do my audition to be admitted to the School of Music and so on. Tom: So the man that taught cello out there? Rebecca: Robert Hladky. H-L-A-D-K-Y. (pronounced Lad-kee) Wanted me to be with him for two years. So he admitted me as a junior rather than a senior and I could see his point. He really couldn't do much with me for just one year. So I it took me five years to do my undergraduate degree and I had to finance the last year myself 'cause my parents had told me and my sisters that they would put us through four years of undergrad school and support us during that time. Tom: Mmhmm. Rebecca: So they did that and then I had to finance that last year. But it was a really good move because, um, Dr. Hladky had studied with some really good teachers and had a really organized approach to playing and technique, and that's what I felt like I needed was, how do I play better, not, how do I be a better musician. That didn't worry me so much, it was, how do I get the notes to come out sounding in tune and on time and so on? Tom: Why isn't that a better musician? Why is? I don't understand the difference. Rebecca: Well, the difference is, you can have, you can know your way around the fingerboard and you can play in tune, and you can play on time, and you can play well with other people, 'cause your sense of rhythm is good and your sound is good and you know how to blend, and so on. But there's this added ingredient of, what would you call it, heart. Tom: Mmhmm. �Rebecca: Soul, swing. Tom: Mmhmm. Rebecca: I know Swing is a Jazz term, but it's been co-opted by classical musicians to mean that little extra special something that makes you want to listen to somebody and they-how they handle the music, like let's say the [Johann Sebastian] Bach unaccompanied suites for cello. There are six of them. Each suite has, let me think, a Prelude and then stylized dances, Allemande, Courante, Sarabande, and then a pair of Minuets, or in some cases a pair of Boureés and then basically uh, a Gigue, G-I-G-G-U-E. Tom: Right. Rebecca: So all six of the Bach Suites have those and Bach, he could do so much with so little. He was all about chords, basically. And he would break up the chords for the cello, which you can't play all four notes at onceTom: Mmhmm. Rebecaa: -like you can on a keyboard or a guitar. Rebecca: And he would write these wonderful, wonderful pieces based on really nothing but-but chord progressions. Tom: Mmhmm. Rebecca: And so, you know, if if you're a good musician, you can play those, conveying to the audience by how you play them, where the important parts are, where the sections begin and end, where the chords change. Well, what's the melodic line and what's the bass line and things like that. And all I can do is share a story about, this was a cello festival I went to in Evanston, Illinois, where I lived for three years, when I went to Northwestern University for one of those years to get my master's in performance. So this cello festival was put on and there was a hotshot guy from Champaign Urbana. I guess that would have been the University of Illinois. And of course, because he was so good, he'd gotten this job, and he played, he performed for us, the attendees, at this little festival. And I had, I was in Evanston, not 'cause I-no, I didn't live there then, I had traveled down, that's right, 'cause I traveled to take a lesson with the new cello instructor at Northwestern. I was up in Wisconsin at that time, teaching at the university and in their Suzuki program. Anyway, I was down there for this-the weekend. So this guy played and he played one of the harder Bach Suites, one of the later ones. And just kind of, you know, knocked out the notes really good and really fast and really clear, but without an iota of �understanding of where the melodic line was, where the bass line was, what the chord progressions were, what-what the music was. He he had technique. He could play all the notes, but-but I just. ... I was kind of offended. I don't know. He was so good and so looked up to and selected to play this solo and I knew I was not his equal as a cellist in terms of getting around the instrument. So when I went to have my lesson with this new teacher at Northwestern, I said, "Was that as bad as I thought it was, musically?" And he shook his head, and he said "There's somebody who had no idea at all what he was doing." Tom: Hm. Rebecca: So, I think non-musicians pick these things up. They know it, whether they can articulate it or not, I don't know. But we all have music in our soul and I think, on some level, we know the difference between somebody who's basically a very good gymnast and somebody who's really taking the music up to the level of music. Music making. I don't know if that clarifies the question at all. Tom: You know, let's say that, that's really, I think I know what you mean. Yeah. Rebecca: It it makes you want to come back and listen to them again and again and again, yeah. Tom: Right. Right. Yeah. Rebecca: No, I had. Even if they miss a few notes, they're still going to call you back by how they play. Tom: Okay. So you went to UW for three years, you went to University of Oregon, Eugene, I guess, right forRebecca: Correct. Yeah. Tom: Two more years, you had a bachelors in music performance and then you went to Northwestern to go to graduate school? Rebecca: Well, something happened in the meantime. Let me look at my notes here. Oh, there was a summer internship orchestra. It wasn't quite the great gig that getting a fellowship to the Aspen Festival, Aspen Music Festival was. [high-powered summer music festival in Aspen, Colorado] If you got a fellowship to the Aspen Music Festival, you got full room and board and a pretty good stipend and you were at the Aspen Music Festival. Which, you know, the luminary musicians that were there and the things that went on, it was just incredible. So I auditioned for the Aspen Music Festival and did not make it. But this other summer internship orchestra, based �in Evergreen, Colorado, was called at that time the Colorado Philharmonic. I think before that, for a while had been called the National Repertory Orchestra. Tom: Mmhmm. Rebecca: Most of the time musicians, when they play auditions, they have to pay the expense of traveling to where the audition is held. So anytime you can drive, you know, 100 miles, or down the street or around the corner or whatever to take an audition, you do it whether you're ready to or not. Tom: Uh-huh. Rebecca: So I knew about the Colorado Philharmonic and I auditioned for it. And I got in. Kind of an interesting, I have always thought it was an interesting story. I was at the audition. There were two people traveling around the country holding auditions. And this-this is kind of a story of getting in over my head musically, which I have a couple of things about that to say, but I-I was sitting there and I played some of the required excerpts that we knew we would have to play, they sent out the list. And I played about two notes of one of them. I'd been working really, really hard on tone production and in this slow excerpt, I think it was the slow movement of Brahms Second Symphony, which is standard, was a standard at that time for a lot of audition lists. [Johannes Brahms, 19th century German composer] And both of them, both of these auditioners did a double take. I started playing, they looked up from their notes and stared at me. So that was interesting. And then when it came to doing the sight reading [playing a piece of music you've never seen before], I was really mentally engaged. I looked very carefully, the way my teachers had told me, to [indistinguishable] the music before I started to play it. I mentally played the first few measures to know what I was about to do. And I noticed that in this particular excerpt there was a a subtle difference in the notation between one phrase and another. And I wanted to make sure to make that difference very, very clear when I played it, so that they would know that I had seen that difference in the printed music. So I did that and got another double take. Tom: Mmhmm. Rebecca: So what happened was, and they based, they seated the sections, the string sections according to the auditions, was that I got fourth chair in this really good orchestra. Which, there was probably a ten-cello section, a very good string section, really excellent, and found myself rehearsing a piece by Claude Debussy, the [19th and 20th century French] Impressionist composer. The piece [was] La Mer, The Sea. It's a beautiful piece and it's got a cello quartet in it, where the rest of the section does not play, and the first four chairs of the cello section do. I had never seen the piece before. I had never heard it before. There I was, having to play the part. Uh, �it was, it was scary. It was stressful. I did okay, but that's sort of a borderline case of having landed myself in hot water. Anyway, that-that was what I did. The summer after my two years at University of Oregon no, wait Tom: Hm. Rebecca: Yeah, I was supposedly going to come back and do a masters. And then I made it [in]to the Colorado Philharmonic. And then we had guest conductors at Colorado Philharmonic. We're going to probably run more than an hour. Is that alright with you? I've got a whole page of notes. Tom: I have somewhere [I] have to be at, I have to leave at about, well, I was thinking maybe we should do a second session. Rebecca: We could. Tom: Let's see where we are by 3:00 and then make sure. Rebecca: Yeah, well, let's see. Colorado Philharmonic, let me think. Tom: So what happened next? Rebecca: Oh, right. We had guest conductors all summer long and and many of them were from professional orchestras. It was just wonderful, and one person got a job offer. Because of how well he played principal viola in the Colorado Philharmonic. Tom: Uh-huh. Rebecca: And they [the guest conductors] would hold audition seminars in the afternoon. See, we had a really compressed schedule. We performed every other night. In Evergreen, Colorado. We had, I think, Sundays off. I can't remember, but the rehearsal schedule was rehearse in the morning, rehearse in the afternoon. And then the day, the concert, rehearsal in the afternoon, perform in the evening. Or it might have been sometimes we did a matinee, in which case we would rehearse in the morning and perform in the afternoon. So, you know, very few rehearsals, very, very hard music, very high powered. So conductors would come through and guest-conduct concerts and hold these audition seminars. On the, in the chunk of time during the concert weekend when we weren't rehearsing and the better players in the orchestra would play their prepared auditions for, they were preparing for professional orchestras, and the conductor would critique. Well, I was never good enough or prepared enough to play these excerpts. So I would listen and, you know, take it all in. But then one conductor, he did not conduct the orchestra, but he was on a tour of the United States, well the upper 48, he had just been hired to conduct the �national symphony of Puerto Rico 'cause they wanted a, basically a European-standard national orchestra, even though they didn't have enough Puerto Ricans, so he was having to come up here and audition people, so I auditioned for him and they offered me a contract. Tom: Okay. Rebecca: As this was my life ambition to play the cello for a living, Tom: Right. Rebecca: I didn't hesitate at all. So that was at the end of the first Colorado Philharmonic season. At the end of that summer, I went down and played for nine months for a season basically in the Colorado or excuse me, the Puerto Rico Symphony in the section. Tom: I remember. I learned that a couple years ago that you had played in the Puerto Rico Symphony, and what was-what was it like there? Rebecca: Well, uhm. Tom: You were there for nine months and then you came back? Rebecca: Yeah, uhm. It was okay. It was well within my ability. It was a lot like playing in the Civic Symphony, although it was a better orchestra, I think, than the Civic Symphony was, somewhat better, good enough to do Beethoven's Ninth. And other Beethoven symphonies. It was fine. I always felt like I was living in a foreign culture. Just because Puerto Rico is part of the United States, politically, they're a commonwealth, I learned, when I lived there, but it's, culturally, of course it's part of Latin America. Tom: Sure, yeah. Rebecca: And I would have experiences, like I would address people on the street for directions or whatever. Or my colleagues in the orchestra. There were some really sweet older men. And I would-I would try my Spanish on them and ... I made such terrible mistakes. And they would, they were so patient. And-and, whimsical with me about it. It was really cool. Uhm, but I had a good stand partner, which is very important in an orchestra. Tom: Ah, and was it a new orchestra? Rebecca: No, I think they'd been going for a while. �Tom: Okay. And did you get a chance to, did you, did you not want to stay a second year, or did they not offer you a job for the second year or? Rebecca: Well, what happened was, I thought for sure I was going to stay more than one year. The money wasn't. It was enough to live on playing in the orchestra, but I also had many opportunities to play in the recording studios in San Juan, and that's where the real money is. I mean, recordings paid pretty well. And then there was the occasional one where it takes you ten minutes to record a jingle for a commercial, and you get paid $200. So that was fine. But then near the end of the year there was a the usual, I found, every year the orchestra as a whole negotiated with management for a better contract. I had learned and observed throughout the year that there were, as a whole in the in the population ... of Puerto Rico, people who wanted to continue as a commonwealth, people who wanted Puerto Rico to become a state, and people who wanted Puerto Rico to be an independent country. Tom: Uh-huh. Rebecca: And I guess there's a lot of history about the commonwealth situation that was quite distasteful to the Independentistas. I never really knew the details or if I did, I've forgotten them. But we had some Independentistas in the orchestra, one man in particular I'm thinking of, who really resented the presence of the ‘gringos.’ Resented us, I mean absolutely could not stand that we were in the orchestra. So when the time came to negotiate, he told us right out - it was a meeting, an orchestra meeting - told all of us 'gringos’ that we had no right to have any voice in this because it was not our orchestra. So, that was the first time in my life had I ever been or felt dismissed and hated and stereotyped because, really, of the color of my skin and where I was from. Tom: Mmhmm. Rebecca: And it was, I didn't think I could work with him. He wasn't the only one. He was just the most outspoken one. And I started feeling like there might be better places for me to be. So I originally spent the whole year thinking I would spend another year there at least, and at the very end of the year I decided, no, I'm gonna go back somewhere, move to a big city where there are many teachers and many orchestras and a good professional orchestra for me to listen to and learn from and so on. So that's what I did. I moved to Evanston, Illinois, to be near the Chicago area. Tom: Okay. And so did you have a job in Evanston or did you go back to school? Rebecca: Uhm, Okay, you've asked me some questions about Evanston. I wanna jump back to high school, �Tom: Okay. Rebecca: 'cause I was in early college 'cause there were some things I wanted to say. Tom: Okay. All right. Rebecca: The first thing I want to say is that as a senior, I competed in a young artist competition in Casper and Cheyenne. And I was beaten by the same person, a pianist, who was pretty good. I was okay too, for my age and my level. And what to me is the interesting thing, and what was the beneficial thing to me about this was that all the string teachers who were concerned, that being the violin professor at University of Wyoming, who was one of the judges in Cheyenne, my teacher at University of Wyoming, uh, Curtis Peacock in Casper, who was not only the conductor of the Civic Symphony, but also the string instructor at Casper College. And maybe some other string teachers that I don't remember, said, they all said the same [thing]: "A pianist at the same level will always sound better than a string player because the string player at that level is still learning to play in tune. Still learning tone production." And while pianists do have to work on tone production, they don't have anything to say about whether they're in tune or not. They don't have to learn that. For obvious reasons. Tom: Right. Rebecca: So they all kind of felt that at least I should have been, should have won, or I don't know how it would have been worked. Anyway, I lost to this person. Curtis said to me, "Uhm, you worked really hard on your concerto. How would you like to play it, perform it with the Casper College Baroque ensemble?", which was really, you know, their chamber orchestra. "Furthermore, how would you like to perform it here in Casper and on tour?" So of course I said yes, I'd love to. And so I got a better deal than the winner. I didn't have the prestige of playing with the symphony, but in terms of practical experience, it's a wonderful opportunity to be able to, if you're being a soloist, to have more than one crack at it. [A concerto is a composition for one or more solo instruments with orchestral accompaniment] Tom: Uh-huh. Rebecca: So, you know, we played on tour and we played in Casper and I still remember playing in some little tiny town up in the northwest part of the state like Frannie or Deaver, or one of those. I just have this very clear memory of sitting on some stage with a tiny handful of people in the audience and-and performing my concerto. So it worked out really well for me. Tom: So the concerto was you and not the whole, and the Casper College orchestra. �Rebecca: Correct. Yeah. Tom: Huh. Great. Rebecca: Yeah, and there was another opportunity I had that I'll just add, many string students [in Casper] also have had. Let me think, Rick Rongstad; cello and bass, Dale Bohren; bass, Andrea Reynolds DiGregorio; cello. And a few violinists, probably, whose names I can't recall now, we all went to this music camp called Congress of Strings. It was a national effort. I think it was probably one string player from each of the 50 states. A huge string orchestra, a really big deal, really very high level of music making. Tom: Where was this? Rebecca: Well, it was held at UCLA for quite a while, and then the year that I went, it was held at the University of Washington in Seattle. Tom: Mmhmm. Rebecca: And it was a full scholarship. And they may also even have paid our transportation. I don't remember. I just know that I got to go and it didn't cost my parents anything. And it was eight weeks long. And it was um, a tremendous opportunity 'cause you're there with some really amazing performers. I remember one of the cellists that was there, he ended up in the Saint Paul Chamber Orchestra, Saint Paul, Minnesota. That's one of the premiere orchestras in the world. And he ended up in that cello section. So I was of course very low on the totem pole, but I didn't really notice 'cause the music we played was so wonderful. We played, I mean you're restricted as a string orchestra to just a few pieces. And one of them is the [19th century Russian composer Pyotr Ilyich] Tchaikovsky Serenade for Strings, which is just one of the most lush, showy, beautiful pieces in the world. And then Mahler, Gustav Mahler, a German composer of the late 1900s. His Fifth Symphony, the slow movement is for strings and harp. And they dredged up a good harp player from somewhere. At Congress of Strings. And we played that, and there's nothing like Mahler. He's he was just drunk with the beauty of music, and you could tell by the way he composed. Tom: Mmhmm. Rebecca: So I will never forget playing those two pieces. It was really something and the local, there's a Musicians' Union Chapter [in Casper, the American Federation of Musicians] provided the scholarship. So because, as a direct result of my involvement with the symphony as a high school student, although I was at the end of my sophomore year in college, or was a freshmanfreshman year of college when I went, I still got the benefit of that scholarship. �Tom: Uh-huh. Rebecca: So that was-that was something. Tom: When you mentioned, I just wanted to ask, did you ever know John Stovall? Rebecca: Yes, he ended up with the Boston Symphony. Tom: Yeah, right was. He's younger than you probably, right? Rebecca: About a year or two, yeah. Well, let’s see, you wanted to know what I did after Puerto Rico, right? Tom: Yeah. Rebecca: Well, I moved to Evanston, Illinois, so that I could go to the Chicago Symphony [concerts]. And I found out once I moved there that they had what they called was a training orchestra for the Chicago Symphony. It was actually a very excellent youth orchestra. I auditioned and got into that. I got an office job in Evanston part time so that I could work till about 2:00 in the afternoon, take the elevated train that turns into a subway partway there downtown, get to orchestra hall, rehearse, come home, eat supper, practice. Uhm, do it all over again. I did that for a semester till Christmas I think, and then I was just too tired. So I went full time at the office that I was working, and quit the Civic Orchestra and just took lessons and practiced. And then that year I applied for some graduate programs and got into the masters program at Northwestern, right there in Evanston. Tom: Yeah, Okay. Rebecca: Well, that's what I did. The second year I was in Evanston, that would have been, let me think, ’79- ‘80 was Puerto Rico, ‘80- ‘81 was being in Evanston [the] first year, ‘81- ‘82 was the year I did my masters. Tom: Mmhmm. Rebecca: That was great. Tom: So you got a masters in cello performance at Northwestern? Rebecca: Correct. �Tom: That’s a one year program? Rebecca: Right. They had, they were so expensive they had to do something. So that's what they did. They reduced their requirements to the scope of a year. Tom: And then you spent another year in Chicago? Rebecca: I did. Um, I have to tell a story about my masters degree recital. I had a really fun teacher at Northwestern and he and I both knew that some of the music I was going to perform at my recital was a little beyond me, so I was lamenting to him, you know, everybody’s gonna hear that it was, uh, by Tchaikovsky, the Rococo Variations, this very showy, highly difficult piece. I said, "They're going to hear that my technique is not up to this piece. It's not going to be a perfect, note perfect recital." And he agreed. No, not quite. But yeah, you're here to learn. He tried. And I said, "Okay, as long as it's not boring, you know, it can be anything. I can miss some notes. Not many, but as many as I'm going to. It can't be boring." So then, I don't remember if he told me this before or after my recital, but he told me he had a terrible tussle with himself how he was going to break it to me that my playing was boring. (laughs) Tom: Really? Rebecca: I have always been glad that he was honest with me. Because one does not want to be a boring performer. So now I have to jump ahead. Now let's see the third one. I'm not going to jump ahead. There's just a continuation of this "boring" story. So then I completed my master's degree and the office that I'd been working at, I ended up working there during spring break and summer and things like that. So they were-they found room for me when I graduated and I went part-time. The year after my masters. Thinking I'd wasted time and money, 'cause I all I had was two little tiny teaching jobs at community schools of music in the area. And I was sure neither of them would ever go anywhere. One of them was a Suzuki teaching job. And one of them was a regular, just regular non-Suzuki, and the Dean of the School of Music at Northwestern had said to me, when I had started there, that my chances of getting a college teaching job were greatly increased if I had some Suzuki experience, because at that time the Suzuki movement was really taking off. Tom: Uh-huh. Rebecca: So, you know, I took this little dinky job that had like three students for which I had to drive an hour one way. Figuring it would never go anywhere, and also feeling like I didn't know enough, so I took a Suzuki pedagogy class on my own initiative, paying out of my own pocket, down at DePaul University, which I had to take the El, [elevated train] I don't know, 45 minutes �south to Loyola University. It wasn't that far, I guess, but a fair way to take part in a Suzuki pedagogy class. Which, to make a long story short, I ended up with a job at the University of Wisconsin Oshkosh teaching University students and Suzuki students combined to make a full time position for me because I took that said ... pedagogy course. And the other community school of music, for which I traveled an hour one way and taught a few more students. It turns out that that was a very respected community school. It was called the Jack Benny Center for the Arts and about more than 50 percent of the music faculty at the University of Wisconsin Oshkosh Music Department - when I went up there to audition and interview for the job - more than 50 percent of them had first of all, gone to Northwestern. Had nostalgic feelings about that. Second of all, had taught at the Jack Benny Center, and also had nostalgic feelings about that, which certainly didn't hurt me. Tom: Yeah. Rebecca: At this interview. So it was great. I spent that whole year feeling like a failure and like I'd wasted my time and was I ever going to be any sort of professional. I dropped the idea of trying to play in an orchestra because, there were kind of two reasons. Playing in an orchestra as a string player, it's kind of bad for your playing as a as a rule, if you do too much of it, 'cause you can't hear yourself the way you can if you're playing chamber music, for example, or playing as a soloist. And I discovered that, playing in the Colorado Philharmonic after University of Oregon, then in the Puerto Rico Symphony. And then again in the Colorado Philharmonic before I moved to Evanston. So more than a year of playing just in an orchestra or mostly in an orchestra. I could tell it was starting to hurt my playing, but the real reason was, to audition for orchestras you have to practice certain orchestral excerpts, just like you would practice a concerto until you have every single note perfect. Well, that's not so bad for excerpts from Beethoven's Ninth, excerpts from Brahms symphonies and things like that. [Johannes Brahms, 19th century German composer] But when it comes to tone poems by Richard Strauss, those things, it's not just that they're hard, they're just not very rewarding musically. [Richard Strauss, 19th and 20th century German composer and conductor (son of Johann Strauss of “Blue Danube” fame.)]The cello parts that you have to learn, at least I found them not rewarding, and I discovered that I just didn't have the motivation to spend the hours and hours and hours and hours preparing those kinds of excerpts and, I don't know, I noticed that it was a really competitive thing. I mean, I always knew it was, but I had a friend in the Puerto Rico Symphony. She was a gringo. She had been in the orchestra for quite a while and she had been trying to get back to the upper 48 for quite a while and she was really good and she was one of these people that could make herself practice these excerpts and she flew, of course, at her own expense, to Texas. I forget, to audition for which major professional orchestra there, and she told me she played a note perfect audition. I mean, she didn't miss a single note, and did not get the job, and that was when she learned that something more was needed. So that, I think that gave me pause, along with the fact that what I really wanted to play was Beethoven quartets and, I don't know. Chamber music was very �attractive to me, and the only way you can really play chamber music is if you're part of a university faculty. Tom: Uh-huh. Rebecca: Unless you get really lucky and you're really, really, really good and you get a place in a professional string quartet. But they often also have teaching positions somewhere. So I applied for this, well, the person that was in this Suzuki pedagogy course that I got to know, was commuting up to Oshkosh to teach in their brand new [Suzuki] cello program. They were paying for her to rent a car and drive up on Saturday morning, teach all day Saturday, and then drive home. Well, I just wasn't going to do that. I just, was not going to do that. And she was thinking of stopping. And I contacted them and I said, you know, I know this woman who's been coming up to teach your students. If you can offer me a full-time job where I can become a resident of the community and live on what you pay me, I'm interested. Well, lo and behold, there was a fireball up there. Who was in charge of the Suzuki program, who went to the university people, who [the Suzuki program] ... was housed in the university music department at that point, and said let's get together. You guys need a cello professor, and you don't have enough students. And we need a cello teacher and we don't have enough students. But together, can we put together a position? And they did. They came up with the money, they came up with, it was a University of Wisconsin system faculty job I had. They had to advertise it. And I had to audition and interview. And there was one other person who was also selected to audition and interview, and I got the job. Tom: And that's in Oshkosh, not Madison, right? Rebecca: That was. There are so many campuses of the University of Wisconsin. It was just incredible [to me at the time], how many. There are little centers all throughout the state in little areas and four-year branches. Many in many places. I told that to my mother, she said, Yeah, Wisconsin is a very progressive state. Tom: Yeah, that's true. That's been. I hope it gets back to that. Okay. So you were in. So how long did you have? Maybe we should. Let's see. How much notes do you have left there, Becky? I got somewhere I need to be about 3:30. Rebecca: Oh, we might be able to wrap up by 3:15 maybe? Tom: Okay, alright. Rebecca: Should we try? �Tom: Yeah, let's. Okay, so where did you go after that? Rebecca: Well, let's, I want to tell one story about being at the University of Wisconsin Oshkosh. Tom: Okay. Rebecca: Well, it was, I began playing regular faculty recitals. I'd been doing this for a few years and people always come backstage afterwards, and congratulate you and so on, and tell you how much they enjoyed it. Well, one person said, "There are two kinds of recitals, one where you're sitting there looking at your watch, wishing it would be over, and another one where you don't want it to end. And your performance was the second kind." Tom: That's nice. Rebecca: So I knew that the practicing I had been doing in the interim had been working. Tom: So not boring? Rebecca: Evidently not. I mean, that person had no reason to schmooze me. No reason at all. Tom: Good. Rebecca: Okay. Tom: I'm sorry to interrupt you. Go ahead. Rebecca: No. So we're done with University of Wisconsin Oshkosh. Uhm, I want to say yeah, go ahead. Tom: How long were you there? Rebecca: Seven years. Tom: Oh, I didn't know that, okay. Rebecca: So yeah. Tom: And did you work that? Was it a tenure track position? �Rebecca: No, no. It was a one year renewable contract. It was adjunct. Well, I don't know. I guess I was an adjunct faculty. I don't know what they called it because I was a hybrid. I was, the Suzuki program was not part of the university, administratively. They just used their offices. So I don't [know]. All I know is my contract ran a year and then was renewed. Tom: Been talking a lot there. Do you need to get a drink of water or something? Rebecca: I don't know. I'll try to manage, I can. I want to say something about, something I faced as principal cellist of the Wyoming Symphony Orchestra. I became principal cellist in the fall of 1992. And what I faced, of course, was having to share the stage with Mark O'Connor, playing a piece that I'd never seen before and it was really hard. Tom: Right. Rebecca: -but I want to go back to something that I did, I'm not sure what year it would have been. I got married and my husband got teacher certification in natural science. And we ended up in Tecumseh, Nebraska. He was teaching science at their combined middle school and high school. ... So it's not that far from Lincoln and Omaha. I decided I would try to get into some of those orchestras that were up there. So I got some audition music and I looked at the deadline and started learning it, and we decided that I if I did any work outside the home, it would be playing the cello. So, I got this audition music and I ran into a piece that I'd never seen before on an audition list. And it was unbelievably hard. And there are two ways of tackling something like that. One is, you learn the notes and then you sort of beat it up to tempo. You set the metronome at the tempo you can play it at and you play it, then you up the metronome one click which is, I don't know ... but it's a few more beats per second [indistinguishable]. Yeah, and you play it again, and then you up the metronome again. You play [it] again. You work it up to speed as best you can that way or you change your technique so that you can play better and more easily. And that changing of technique is a long process, long and intensive. And I looked at the deadline for that audition and I decided I would rather change my technique than play that audition. So I did. I engaged in some very focused, very intensive practicing. One of the things I worked on was my sitting posture where, you know, you sit, you pick up the cello. Your back might be really good, your back muscles might be great, you know, and you start to play and everything starts twisting up and tightening up in bad ways. You have to have some muscle support when you play, so you can't talk about being completely relaxed 'cause then you wouldn't even be able to push the strings down or hold the bow, but managing your muscles so you don't distort what they're best for. That's what I tackled in that practice session with no knowledge of the future, you understand? No, no crystal ball that told me I was going to be onstage with Mark O'Connor about, I don't know, eight years later or something. Facing a piece that was nearly too hard for me. So that was very satisfying practicing and it really put my playing- headed me in a different direction. So that I was a much better player. And playing was much more easy, and my sound �was better, and a whole bunch of other things were better. Playing fast was easier. So that when I landed in Casper as the principal cellist of the symphony, I was ready for it. The principal cello ... solos that you have to play, things like the William Tell Overture by Rossini. [19th century Italian composer Gioachino Rossini's Overture to his opera, William Tell] That's best known, of course, as The Lone Ranger theme. But the opening is slow and it's a cello quartet, and the principal cello has the most wonderful and hardest part of the four cellos. I enjoyed that so much. I enjoyed playing that solo and I did it really well and I know I did. So I wasn't in over my head at all. It was comfortable, it was a comfortable job and we did a Brahms Piano Concerto. I ... [think] the second one? John Browning, who is a world class pianist, was our soloist. We played that in Oshkosh too. I was principal of the Oshkosh Symphony. And there's a very, very beautiful principal cello solo in the slow movement of that piece, I'd played it before. There is an easy part of it and then there's a harder part of it and it's just gorgeous and I played it. And then you sort of hand over to the piano after you play the second part of the solo. So I looked at John Browning when I was done, and he nodded at me and smiled, when he started playing, so I knew I had done a really good job. That, moments like that, were just wonderful and I never felt like I was over my head. Okay, so. Are we going till 3:15 'cause I think, probably, we can finish up in that time. Tom: What? Okay. Ah, alright, I have someRebecca: Will that work for you? Tom: Some, I'll have some questions, but maybe we could have a second session for those. I don't know that they'll take much time. So how did you end up? Are you going to tell me how it is you came to leave Nebraska and come back to Casper? Rebecca: Oh yeah, well, so my husband, Ellis, was teaching science and there were some unbelievable behavior problems in his classroom. You wouldn't think of it in a little town, but it was the case. And he had a very unsupportive principal who just didn't back him up in discipline. So he quit. He-he burned out faster than I've ever seen anybody burn out on teaching. He quit in March of that year, just broke his contract, and we moved. I'd been in touch with my father. My mother had died in ‘84, and this was ‘92, spring of 1992, and he told me they didn't have a principal cellist in the symphony, and that they were paying more or less a professional rate they'd had to cut down on what they were paying, but it was sort of our only safety net because Ellis was not going to teach school again. That was a very bad experience. He lost thirty pounds. He had insomnia for the only time he's ever in his life had insomnia. It was just terrible so we couldn't wait to get away. So we moved to Casper and I auditioned for the principal cello position and got it. And Ellis started remodeling houses and all that. Being a former farmer, he had a lot of carpenter skills and things like that. Maybe your questions are more important than what I have in my notes, except about O'Connor. �Tom: Do that. Yeah, no. Okay, tell me about Mark O'Connor. Rebecca: May of 1997, I had never heard of Mark O'Connor. I just knew he was our guest artist, and the music librarian whose job it was to get our music into our folders and let us know when we could come to the symphony office to pick them up, said, “Guess what? You're playing a duo with this guy, just you and him. And he supplied a tape recording.” Okay well, shrug. I was conscientious so I always picked up my folder as soon as it was ready and got busy on the music. So I got my music and I looked at this part and I played through it and it didn't look so bad. And I played the tape, and the tempo was so fast on the tape that I didn't recognize it, didn't realize it was the piece until I did, suddenly realize how fast I was going to have to play this piece. And the problem of course, which I couldn't help but notice [was] the length of the fiddle fingerboard, or the violin, is about half the length of the cello fingerboard. And I pretty much had to match Mark O'Connor note-for-note in this piece, "Limerock" was the name of the piece. So it's like he had to run the 50 yard dash and I had to run the 100 yard dash, and I had to come to the finish line at the same time that he got to the finish line. Tom: Right. Rebecca: -and he was by far the better player, in addition. ... and I had, the style was alien. So we get to the dress rehearsal. Tom: Had he, had he never performed this before with a cello, did he? Rebecca: Oh, many times. He had performed it with Yo-Yo Ma. They often programmed it. Tom: Okay. Rebecca: So we played it at the dress rehearsal and I was sweating. Of course, I was just sweating it because it was so hard. I was pushing to the very outer limits of what I could do. So I played it note-for-note at the dress rehearsal. He stopped and he looked at me, looked kind of puzzled and said, "you know, Yo-Yo had trouble with this piece." And my reaction was, well, as if I didn't. Just 'cause you can't see it. So Holly Turner was the manager, the executive director of the orchestra at that time, and it was her job to make sure that the guest artist got where he or she needed to go at the right time, so she was driving him around and taking him out for meals and things like that. And he told her a bunch of stories about past performances of this piece, or past attempted performances, including somebody, some principal cellist somewhere, who had been unable to play the piece and had - they had to take it off the program. And I think it must have been a case of not practicing it hard enough. �Tom: Uh-huh. Rebecca: As this person was way above me in the profession, and you don't get to the point that she was at without being really good and auditioning successfully, and a bunch of other things. So sort of a case of the tortoise and the hare. Tom: Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Rebecca: So that was, that was not comfortable. It was too scary, too stressful, [to be comfortable] but it was worth doing. Tom: Yeah, yeah. ... That's great. [indistinguishable] Rebecca: Now I have a couple of associated stories, but I don't know if I try to tell them now, should I? They're short. Tom: Yeah, sure. Okay. Rebecca: After I was done, that is, had played "Limerock," there was more of the concert, including Mark O'Connor's Fiddle Concerto for Fiddle and Orchestra. And in that, the last movement of the concerto, there was a cadenza. And for the non musicians, I'll just say that the cadenza is the part where in a concerto where everything stops and the soloist has a chance to show off, and in the 19th century, cadenzas were improvised. Classical soloists improvised cadenzas. But then that got out of fashion and cadenzas started being written out, and the soloists just played the cadenza that was written into the music. Well, Mark O'Connor, of course he improvised his cadenza. And of course I could enjoy it completely because I was done with the hot-water part of it and it was one of the most memorable musical experiences of my life to sit, what, ten feet away from him, and watch him, and listen to him improvise this amazing cadenza. So one more O'Connor story, if you have time. And then a couple of post-concert, post-Mark O'Connor's concert stories could have stayed with me. First of all, Mark O'Connor was in Laramie, oh four, five, six, years after he was in Casper, and of course I went down to hear him, took my children. And he takes care of his fans. He sits out in the lobby after the concert and signs CDS, signs programs, and so on. For as long a line as there is. So I got in line. I didn't want a signature, but I wanted to ask him what he was thinking, programming "Limerock" in a community orchestra. What was he thinking that he did that to me? That was sort of the purport, and he looked kind of blank. He said, "Well, community musicians play well." I said, "yeah, but do we play that well?" That was his firm belief that in spite of having, not having every cellist that he played with be able to play it. I mean, Yo-Yo Ma could play it. He just had a little trouble with one section. When I saw the YouTube uhm, video of them, I saw what he did to to solve that problem. And it made sense. So I was invited to the reception after the concert. �Tom: Okay. Rebecca: Yeah, and somebody at that reception said something. Maybe it was a board member that said it, I don't know. I didn't know the members of the board, and they didn't hold receptions for the whole orchestra at that point. I was invited at the last minute 'cause I was a kind of soloist at that concert. Anyway, uhm, this person said "You know, I noticed that you didn't smile until it was all over." And I didn't say it, but I thought, "it's not my job to smile." (laughs) "It's my job to play the cello. Don't expect me to smile" 'Cause it was scary and stressful. Tom: Yeah. Rebecca: I was thrilled that I had done it, but I can't say that it was fun like playing [the] William Tell solo or something like that. Tom: Mmhmm. Mmhmm. Rebecca: So the other thing, I'll be quick 'cause I know you have to go. Somebody at that reception congratulated me and said I had really, distinguished the whole symphony and the whole city and so on. And I said, "Well, great, how about, how about a raise? How about hazardous duty pay for work dangerous to my ego and reputation?" Yeah, I thought it was a harmless quip. Well, you never experienced such a chilly tide of disapproval as swept that room. Tom: So this was, this was after you played the "Limerock" or this was six years later in Laramie? Rebecca: No, it was after, was at the reception Tom: Uh-huh. Rebecca: -for that concert. It-it was a joke, I thought a harmless little quip. Tom: Mmhmm. Rebecca: But apparently to some people money is so important that you do not joke about it. Tom: Yeah. Rebecca: I don't know. It was a major social gaffe, that I just did not see coming and didn't understand after it had happened. �Tom: Well, that's really interesting. I'd like to, maybe if we could have another conversation, ask you some more about your departure from the symphony, and about your feeling of the symphony as an organ, as a institution over all that time. I mean, you were connected with it off and on for a long time. And that's really, that's rare. Rebecca: Sure. Tom: So if we could maybe talk more about some of those things. Rebecca: That’d be fine. Tom: Other time I don't 'cause I don't want to squish them up now and I know you have a lot more stories you could tell me too. So this stuff is really interesting. Thank you so much, and I'm learning so much that I didn't know, which is always fun. So thanks. Maybe off the tape we can talk about another time when we can both do this again. Rebecca: Yeah, I don't know how to end the meeting and keep us talking. I suppose you could call me. Tom: Yeah, why don't we? Or maybe just? Rebecca: To end the recording. I'm not sure how to stop the recording and continue the meeting. You want me to try? Alright, let me see. Recording… � https://caspercollege.cvlcollections.org/files/original/0499323f738a300f1bd6afb34e5cb214.pdf 2a0a1e7efe0914bfd045dc0f3e83283f PDF Text Text Wyoming Symphony Oral History Project Tom Rea interviewing Rebecca Hein, September 21, 2022 Date transcribed: February 17, 2023 Tom: So, Becky, could you tell us about your, when-when did you first start playing with the with the, was it the Casper Civic Symphony still when you started? Rebecca: Yeah, I had been playing the cello since fourth grade 'cause that was when we had the chance to join orchestra or band and choose our instrument. And, during at least some of that time, I'd been taking private lessons. Tom: Mmhmm. Rebecca: And I guess the the string teachers in town kind of knew who might be ready to play in the Civic Symphony. I'd been playing in the Youth Symphony. Well, I don't know, maybe I joined the same year, my sophomore year? Anyway, I was invited to play in the Civic Symphony, and my interest in the cello and music was at kind of a low point. And what I was really on fire about at the beginning of that year was a possible trip to Spain that my second year Spanish teacher was talking about. So my mother, who of course didn't want to see me quit music, sort of—and I wasn't going to be able to earn enough money for this trip just working at the family business. I was going to have to find some other source of money, so she very casually pointed out, since I had declined to play in the symphony, that they paid. So of course I joined. Tom: (chuckles) Rebecca: And played the first concert, I think it was probably in September. And Rex Eggleston was conducting at that time. He was the conductor, I think Curtis Peacock came to town that year. That would have been the fall of ... 1971? Tom: Uh-huh. Rebecca: And he [Peacock] was, I think the the assistant conductor or something like that. Rex Eggleston, E-G-G-L-E-S-T-O-N, was, at that time, the head of the public school strings in Casper. A really excellent violist, principal viola in the symphony when he wasn't conducting, and a really wonderful guyTom: Yeah. Yeah. �Rebecca: So, I had a really great start, playing under Rex that year. Tom: Oh, okay. And who did you, before we get into the symphony, so who who did you have for a teacher? Before, you know, before then? Who did you take lessons from? Rebecca: Well, I remember studying with Dorotha Becker, who was also concertmaster [first chair, first violin, and also leader of the entire string section] of the Civic Symphony at that time, and kind of the mainstay of string teaching in town. Tom: Mmhmm. Rebecca: I remember she taught orchestra at Grant School when I was in fourth grade, and when it was time for me to take private lessons, that was, I think she was the only person in town who could really do that, until a cello teacher came to town whose name was Rebecca Rennecker. I'm not sure how her last name was spelled. And she became principal cello of the symphony. There was a little bit of trouble over that because the existing principal cellist, who had served long and well and was quite competent, his name was Sidney Wallingford. Was kind of pushed aside, I felt, and he felt, and I think he continued to play for a few years before he quit. Anyway, Rebecca Rennecker was my teacher through the rest of high school until I switched, I must have switched at the beginning of my senior year to driving down to Laramie to study with the cello professor there, David Tomatz T-O-M-A-T-Z. So all through the winter, Sid Wallingford and I drove down to Laramie together, we would take turns driving, to take our lessons. Tom: Did you spend the night down there? Rebecca: No, I think we drove home the same day. Tom: Uh-huh. Rebecca: I'm sure we did. Tom: I remember listening to you play the cello in Barbara Dobos' living room when you were about 18. Rebecca: I remember doing that, yeah. Tom: You were a wonderful cello player for a long time. We'll get to that later, so. Where was, there, when you were in, at Grant School, when you were in the schools in Casper, was there, was there music instruction in the schools? Just orchestra, not private lessons through the �schools, right? But the kids could be in bands and was that part of the instructional day? Or was that like a after school activity like sports? Rebecca: No, that was a class during the day, as I recall. Tom: Right, so you could be in a orchestra class or a band? Yeah, that's sort of the, I guess, when our kids were there, too. And so, you started with Rex and then Curtis comes in when you're still in high school, were there are very many other high school kids? And you were in the cello section. You were not yet principal cellist. Is that right? Rebecca: Correct. Tom: And were there any other high school kids in the symphony then? Rebecca: Yeah, I recall Debbie Johnson, who's now Debbie Bovie. Tom: Oh. Rebecca: She's about my age, and she went to Kelly Walsh [high school in Casper]. Tom: Yeah, I know her, uh-huh. Rebecca: And John Niethamer, N-I-E-T-H-A-M-E-R, he was a year older than I was, but he was in the symphony. Tom: Uh-huh. Rebecca: And I’m trying to think what other cellists, there was a principal bass for a while, a very nice man named Joe Corrigan, and Joe had a younger brother named Gaylen. I think G-AY-L-E-N, who was around my age, and I'm sure Gaylen must have played [cello] in the symphony at some time 'cause I remember playing with him and it wouldn't have been in high school orchestra, I know that. So it had to have been either Youth or Civic Symphony, or, more likely, both. Tom: So these were all cello players or these were a variety of instruments? Rebecca: Cellists. I had plenty of violinist friends as well, whose names I recall, if you want me to mention them. Tom: Sure. �Rebecca: OK, well, there was a student at Casper College whose name was Carol Tumbleson. She was really good. There was a, I don't know if she was a student at Casper College or older, but she wasn't that old. Her name was Lynette Ketcham, K-E-T-C-H-A-M. I'm seeing the photo of the symphony from this time, I think it was from when I was a senior in high school and I'm just seeing their faces. There was Jane Gerberding. Her husband or excuse me, her father was a Lutheran pastor in town, and he used to review symphony performances in the ‘80s [for the Casper Star-Tribune]. That was later on. But Jane was a good friend of mine. She was a year older than me. Susan Cheney, I looked at the math and I figured she must be either a younger sister of Dick Cheney or maybe a cousin. I don't know. Tom: Hm. Rebecca: She went to Kelly Walsh. There was a girl who was really talented; her name was Sharon Street. She was a violist. A really excellent violist, just one of these people, it's like, it seems like they never practice and they're always better than you are. And maybe she did practice and I just didn't know it, but she was extremely talented. And then also in that photo, I saw somebody in the trombone section by the name of Brian Brown, who was my age. And I can't think of who else. Tom: That's a lot. I wonder what they're all doing. That's interesting. And your mom was in the orchestra, right? Rebecca: Correct. She played viola. She took up viola in mid-life because, expressly because, orchestras never have enough violas, and she knew she was not going to be able to get really good if she took up the instrument, you know, not as a child. And so of course, she indeed had the opportunity to play in the symphony, because it's quite true that there's kind of a chronic shortage of good viola players. Tom: And so, had she-she never played strings before taking this instrument up when she was in her mid-life? Rebecca: I don't know. In her late 40s probably. Let me think, she played piano forever. She had played piano since she was a little girl, so she was a musician already. But it's a pretty big jump from piano to a stringed instrument. Tom: Yeah, I'll say wow. When I knew your mom, she was playing in the symphony. So what was it like being in the symphony with your mom? Rebecca: Oh, it was fine. It was great. I was so happy that she had a way to enjoy herself by playing in the orchestra, 'cause she, she and my father were very supportive of the orchestra and �would house import players and sell season tickets at their family business, Lange's Bookshop, and contribute. At least, well, their names in the program are pretty high-up in terms of the list of donors, so they were contributing in that way. At a higher proportion of their income than a lot of people. But you have to remember that a lot of those people that showed up at sort of modest levels of contribution, some of them showed up at the symphony balls and the other fundraisers and spent a lot of money at the auctions and things, and that didn't really show up in the list of contributors in the program, and those lists were sorted according to how much money the people gave. Tom: Yeah, different levels of, yeah, right. That's interesting. And was ... [there] already a symphony ball every year by then? Rebecca: I think probably, yeah. Tom: And were there any other adults in the symphony who you knew through your parents, or who were friends or parents of your friends or anything like that, you know? I'm trying to see if, you know, if it felt like these were people you knew anyway, some of them. You know what I mean? Rebecca: Well, of course I knew Sid Wallingford. Rick Rongstad would come up from Colorado. He wasn't that many years older than me, but I suppose he qualified as an adult. I guess, at that point, there was a woman named Mildred Brehm. B-R-E-H-M, I believe. She, I think, was principal second violin for quite a while. And of course, Rex. When he wasn't conducting, he was right there at the head of the viola section. And I just cannot overemphasize what a wonderful man he was. He was such a good teacher and so encouraging and so goodnatured. He was a real asset to the musical scene in Casper, I think. Tom: That's nice. Yeah. I knew him years later when I was the school's reporter for the [Casper] Star-Tribune and Rex was the head of I think not just music, but all arts stuff for the district, for the school district. Rebecca: Oh. Tom: Yeah, Mildred Brehm. B-R-E-H-M? Rebecca: That's correct. Tom: I wonder if she might have been the husband of the guy that my father-in-law, Derb Scott, worked for in the oil business? The wife? Did I say husband? Okay, that's interesting. Rebecca: Oh, and Rex’s wife, Connie, played principal bassoon for a while. �Tom: Okay. So, you started your sophomore year, junior year, senior year. And then you went to and so, did the orchestra change at all or you did? Were you feeling you were getting better During that time? Rebecca: Well, let me tell you what happened to me at the end of my sophomore year. First of all, throughout the year I became so in love with playing in an orchestra that I pretty much forgot about the trip to Spain. And all year long, every Sunday afternoon, I would play string quartets [two violins, viola and cello] with friends of mine from the Youth Symphony in my parents’ basement. Every Sunday afternoon as I recall, and we would play for hours and hours and hours and we had our fun pieces, our favorite pieces that we played every week, so you can imagine we got pretty good at them. Especially with Susan Cheney on first violin, she was quite good. So there was a particular Mozart quartet, I do not remember which one, but we were playing it one day. We’d been playing it for weeks, and there was a moment at which it was perfect. We-we were all together. There was no effort involved. We were all feeling the beat together and the sound we were putting out was perfectly blended. I swear it just was just one of those moments where everything comes together and and I was, I was struck. I don't know how else to put it. It felt like the sky had opened up, and a beam of light had come down and focused itself on the top of my head. And I was, I was like the Ancient Mariner or something, you know? [Referring to the poem by Samuel Taylor Coleridge, "The Rime of the Ancient Mariner," in which the Ancient Mariner had one story to tell, and had to tell it to everyone he met.] I couldn't think about anything else. Suddenly I had this moment of wanting moments of beauty like that, as many as I could have for the rest of my life. Tom: Yeah. Rebecca: And-and I, and my-my brain put it into a sort of a mathematical statement, like, "Okay, you want more of these beautiful moments? This particular beautiful moment happened because our collective skill had reached a certain point." So the way to predispose or, you know, raise the odds, for more of those beautiful moments is to increase my skill, and the way to increase my skill is to practice as much as I can, and and literally overnight I became a practicing dynamo and I kind of pushed aside my, um, studies. For the next few years of high school, I didn't flunk out, but my grades probably could have been better than they were. And every spare minute I had, I practiced. And that, in practical terms, that meant for my last two years of high school, I would go to school and then I would walk downtown and work at the family business until closing time, come home, eat supper, help with chores, practice the cello till bedtime, not do my homework. Yeah. Because I-I wanted a career in music, in performance, and I knew I was really far behind to have that ambition. You're supposed to start when you're 5 or whatever. Here I was, 17 years old, or 16, I guess, and I knew I had to catch up and so I was both inspired, and I was also, I guess you could say, worried or knew how hard I was going to have to work. So in that �moment of perfection in the string quartets, I think basically I got my vision for my life, even though I hadn't been conscious of being on a vision quest or anything like that. Tom: Uh-huh. Rebecca: So I ... just had to major in cello performance. Tom: Uh-huh. Rebecca: And a lot of people. Not a lot, a few, including my teacher at UW [University of Wyoming], they sort of tried to talk me, not exactly out of majoring in cello performance, but into adding teacher certification. Tom: Mmhmm. Rebecca: So that as my teacher said, "Suppose you get married and your husband moves to a little town and there aren't any playing opportunities, what are you going to do? If you have your teacher certification at least then you'd be able to teach in the schools." Well, I knew I would be miserable teaching in the public schools, so I said no, I want to perform. I held to that for a very long time. Well, and I never did teach in the public schools. And there are very few performers who don't teach, both because they, I think, to some degree get pulled into it 'cause it's interesting and they want to share what they know, and to some degree because it's additional income. Tom: Sure. Ah, that's- thank you for telling me that story. That's how wonderful and so um. You went to UW? Rebecca: That's correct, for three years. And during those three years, I came back to the Civic Symphony as an import for many concerts, maybe all of them. Tom: Mmhmm. Rebecca: That was fun. Tom: And were you majoring in cello performance at UW? Rebecca: I was. Tom: And who was your teacher there? Rebecca: David Tomatz T-O-M-A-T-Z. He was also head of the department. �Tom: Oh yeah, you mean? Yeah, I think you mentioned him in your Casper article, [article published on WyoHistory.org about the history of the symphony]. Was he a conductor in Casper? For a while also? No? Rebecca: No, he was conductor of the University Symphony. Tom: Okay. Rebecca: The main things he did was teach the cello lessons, play in the Western Arts Trio, which was the faculty piano trio at UW, and teach a few students. [a piano trio is piano, violin and cello] Tom: So you were aRebecca: And fair amount-go ahead. Tom: You were a private student of his as well, or you were, or you were, or that was part of your ... regular UW education? Rebecca: Yeah, that was part of my, you could take it as a class, basically. Private lessons, well, they’re one-on-one. I forget what they-applied, that was it, [they called them] applied lessons, for a certain number of credits. Tom: Uh-huh. And was he a good teacher? Rebecca: He was all right. I think his mind was elsewhere than teaching and performing. He was okay, but at the end of three years, I was frustrated by two things. I felt like I wasn't learning enough in my lessons and I was, I think, the only cellist of any ability in the department, so I didn't really have colleagues. Tom: Uh-huh. Rebecca: And I wanted to be in a situation where I was surrounded by student cellists who were better than I was. Tom: Mmhmm. Rebecca: So [that] I had room to learn and a teacher who was a better teacher and a better performer than David Tomatz was. He was really made for schmoozing money out of little, old- �rich, little old ladies. That's really what he was made for. And that's really what he did best. Probably, you know, raised quite a lot of money for the department and the university orchestra. He was a very good looking man and he was charming and you know, I'm sure he knew how to schmooze money out of people. So he was divided. So at at the end of three years I transferred to the University of Oregon. Tom: Uh-huh. Rebecca: Because in the region, I'd been to music camps in Montana, and I'd heard about the cello teacher at Oregon and been impressed with what I'd heard. And actually, I think it was during my sophomore year at UW, that I flew out there, spent my own money to do it. I had a friend that I'd gone to high school with who I’d been corresponding with, who was going to the University of Oregon, who met me at the airport, put me up in her apartment, gave me a ride to the university so I could do my audition to be admitted to the School of Music and so on. Tom: So the man that taught cello out there? Rebecca: Robert Hladky. H-L-A-D-K-Y. (pronounced Lad-kee) Wanted me to be with him for two years. So he admitted me as a junior rather than a senior and I could see his point. He really couldn't do much with me for just one year. So I it took me five years to do my undergraduate degree and I had to finance the last year myself 'cause my parents had told me and my sisters that they would put us through four years of undergrad school and support us during that time. Tom: Mmhmm. Rebecca: So they did that and then I had to finance that last year. But it was a really good move because, um, Dr. Hladky had studied with some really good teachers and had a really organized approach to playing and technique, and that's what I felt like I needed was, how do I play better, not, how do I be a better musician. That didn't worry me so much, it was, how do I get the notes to come out sounding in tune and on time and so on? Tom: Why isn't that a better musician? Why is? I don't understand the difference. Rebecca: Well, the difference is, you can have, you can know your way around the fingerboard and you can play in tune, and you can play on time, and you can play well with other people, 'cause your sense of rhythm is good and your sound is good and you know how to blend, and so on. But there's this added ingredient of, what would you call it, heart. Tom: Mmhmm. �Rebecca: Soul, swing. Tom: Mmhmm. Rebecca: I know Swing is a Jazz term, but it's been co-opted by classical musicians to mean that little extra special something that makes you want to listen to somebody and they-how they handle the music, like let's say the [Johann Sebastian] Bach unaccompanied suites for cello. There are six of them. Each suite has, let me think, a Prelude and then stylized dances, Allemande, Courante, Sarabande, and then a pair of Minuets, or in some cases a pair of Boureés and then basically uh, a Gigue, G-I-G-G-U-E. Tom: Right. Rebecca: So all six of the Bach Suites have those and Bach, he could do so much with so little. He was all about chords, basically. And he would break up the chords for the cello, which you can't play all four notes at onceTom: Mmhmm. Rebecaa: -like you can on a keyboard or a guitar. Rebecca: And he would write these wonderful, wonderful pieces based on really nothing but-but chord progressions. Tom: Mmhmm. Rebecca: And so, you know, if if you're a good musician, you can play those, conveying to the audience by how you play them, where the important parts are, where the sections begin and end, where the chords change. Well, what's the melodic line and what's the bass line and things like that. And all I can do is share a story about, this was a cello festival I went to in Evanston, Illinois, where I lived for three years, when I went to Northwestern University for one of those years to get my master's in performance. So this cello festival was put on and there was a hotshot guy from Champaign Urbana. I guess that would have been the University of Illinois. And of course, because he was so good, he'd gotten this job, and he played, he performed for us, the attendees, at this little festival. And I had, I was in Evanston, not 'cause I-no, I didn't live there then, I had traveled down, that's right, 'cause I traveled to take a lesson with the new cello instructor at Northwestern. I was up in Wisconsin at that time, teaching at the university and in their Suzuki program. Anyway, I was down there for this-the weekend. So this guy played and he played one of the harder Bach Suites, one of the later ones. And just kind of, you know, knocked out the notes really good and really fast and really clear, but without an iota of �understanding of where the melodic line was, where the bass line was, what the chord progressions were, what-what the music was. He he had technique. He could play all the notes, but-but I just. ... I was kind of offended. I don't know. He was so good and so looked up to and selected to play this solo and I knew I was not his equal as a cellist in terms of getting around the instrument. So when I went to have my lesson with this new teacher at Northwestern, I said, "Was that as bad as I thought it was, musically?" And he shook his head, and he said "There's somebody who had no idea at all what he was doing." Tom: Hm. Rebecca: So, I think non-musicians pick these things up. They know it, whether they can articulate it or not, I don't know. But we all have music in our soul and I think, on some level, we know the difference between somebody who's basically a very good gymnast and somebody who's really taking the music up to the level of music. Music making. I don't know if that clarifies the question at all. Tom: You know, let's say that, that's really, I think I know what you mean. Yeah. Rebecca: It it makes you want to come back and listen to them again and again and again, yeah. Tom: Right. Right. Yeah. Rebecca: No, I had. Even if they miss a few notes, they're still going to call you back by how they play. Tom: Okay. So you went to UW for three years, you went to University of Oregon, Eugene, I guess, right forRebecca: Correct. Yeah. Tom: Two more years, you had a bachelors in music performance and then you went to Northwestern to go to graduate school? Rebecca: Well, something happened in the meantime. Let me look at my notes here. Oh, there was a summer internship orchestra. It wasn't quite the great gig that getting a fellowship to the Aspen Festival, Aspen Music Festival was. [high-powered summer music festival in Aspen, Colorado] If you got a fellowship to the Aspen Music Festival, you got full room and board and a pretty good stipend and you were at the Aspen Music Festival. Which, you know, the luminary musicians that were there and the things that went on, it was just incredible. So I auditioned for the Aspen Music Festival and did not make it. But this other summer internship orchestra, based �in Evergreen, Colorado, was called at that time the Colorado Philharmonic. I think before that, for a while had been called the National Repertory Orchestra. Tom: Mmhmm. Rebecca: Most of the time musicians, when they play auditions, they have to pay the expense of traveling to where the audition is held. So anytime you can drive, you know, 100 miles, or down the street or around the corner or whatever to take an audition, you do it whether you're ready to or not. Tom: Uh-huh. Rebecca: So I knew about the Colorado Philharmonic and I auditioned for it. And I got in. Kind of an interesting, I have always thought it was an interesting story. I was at the audition. There were two people traveling around the country holding auditions. And this-this is kind of a story of getting in over my head musically, which I have a couple of things about that to say, but I-I was sitting there and I played some of the required excerpts that we knew we would have to play, they sent out the list. And I played about two notes of one of them. I'd been working really, really hard on tone production and in this slow excerpt, I think it was the slow movement of Brahms Second Symphony, which is standard, was a standard at that time for a lot of audition lists. [Johannes Brahms, 19th century German composer] And both of them, both of these auditioners did a double take. I started playing, they looked up from their notes and stared at me. So that was interesting. And then when it came to doing the sight reading [playing a piece of music you've never seen before], I was really mentally engaged. I looked very carefully, the way my teachers had told me, to [indistinguishable] the music before I started to play it. I mentally played the first few measures to know what I was about to do. And I noticed that in this particular excerpt there was a a subtle difference in the notation between one phrase and another. And I wanted to make sure to make that difference very, very clear when I played it, so that they would know that I had seen that difference in the printed music. So I did that and got another double take. Tom: Mmhmm. Rebecca: So what happened was, and they based, they seated the sections, the string sections according to the auditions, was that I got fourth chair in this really good orchestra. Which, there was probably a ten-cello section, a very good string section, really excellent, and found myself rehearsing a piece by Claude Debussy, the [19th and 20th century French] Impressionist composer. The piece [was] La Mer, The Sea. It's a beautiful piece and it's got a cello quartet in it, where the rest of the section does not play, and the first four chairs of the cello section do. I had never seen the piece before. I had never heard it before. There I was, having to play the part. Uh, �it was, it was scary. It was stressful. I did okay, but that's sort of a borderline case of having landed myself in hot water. Anyway, that-that was what I did. The summer after my two years at University of Oregon no, wait Tom: Hm. Rebecca: Yeah, I was supposedly going to come back and do a masters. And then I made it [in]to the Colorado Philharmonic. And then we had guest conductors at Colorado Philharmonic. We're going to probably run more than an hour. Is that alright with you? I've got a whole page of notes. Tom: I have somewhere [I] have to be at, I have to leave at about, well, I was thinking maybe we should do a second session. Rebecca: We could. Tom: Let's see where we are by 3:00 and then make sure. Rebecca: Yeah, well, let's see. Colorado Philharmonic, let me think. Tom: So what happened next? Rebecca: Oh, right. We had guest conductors all summer long and and many of them were from professional orchestras. It was just wonderful, and one person got a job offer. Because of how well he played principal viola in the Colorado Philharmonic. Tom: Uh-huh. Rebecca: And they [the guest conductors] would hold audition seminars in the afternoon. See, we had a really compressed schedule. We performed every other night. In Evergreen, Colorado. We had, I think, Sundays off. I can't remember, but the rehearsal schedule was rehearse in the morning, rehearse in the afternoon. And then the day, the concert, rehearsal in the afternoon, perform in the evening. Or it might have been sometimes we did a matinee, in which case we would rehearse in the morning and perform in the afternoon. So, you know, very few rehearsals, very, very hard music, very high powered. So conductors would come through and guest-conduct concerts and hold these audition seminars. On the, in the chunk of time during the concert weekend when we weren't rehearsing and the better players in the orchestra would play their prepared auditions for, they were preparing for professional orchestras, and the conductor would critique. Well, I was never good enough or prepared enough to play these excerpts. So I would listen and, you know, take it all in. But then one conductor, he did not conduct the orchestra, but he was on a tour of the United States, well the upper 48, he had just been hired to conduct the �national symphony of Puerto Rico 'cause they wanted a, basically a European-standard national orchestra, even though they didn't have enough Puerto Ricans, so he was having to come up here and audition people, so I auditioned for him and they offered me a contract. Tom: Okay. Rebecca: As this was my life ambition to play the cello for a living, Tom: Right. Rebecca: I didn't hesitate at all. So that was at the end of the first Colorado Philharmonic season. At the end of that summer, I went down and played for nine months for a season basically in the Colorado or excuse me, the Puerto Rico Symphony in the section. Tom: I remember. I learned that a couple years ago that you had played in the Puerto Rico Symphony, and what was-what was it like there? Rebecca: Well, uhm. Tom: You were there for nine months and then you came back? Rebecca: Yeah, uhm. It was okay. It was well within my ability. It was a lot like playing in the Civic Symphony, although it was a better orchestra, I think, than the Civic Symphony was, somewhat better, good enough to do Beethoven's Ninth. And other Beethoven symphonies. It was fine. I always felt like I was living in a foreign culture. Just because Puerto Rico is part of the United States, politically, they're a commonwealth, I learned, when I lived there, but it's, culturally, of course it's part of Latin America. Tom: Sure, yeah. Rebecca: And I would have experiences, like I would address people on the street for directions or whatever. Or my colleagues in the orchestra. There were some really sweet older men. And I would-I would try my Spanish on them and ... I made such terrible mistakes. And they would, they were so patient. And-and, whimsical with me about it. It was really cool. Uhm, but I had a good stand partner, which is very important in an orchestra. Tom: Ah, and was it a new orchestra? Rebecca: No, I think they'd been going for a while. �Tom: Okay. And did you get a chance to, did you, did you not want to stay a second year, or did they not offer you a job for the second year or? Rebecca: Well, what happened was, I thought for sure I was going to stay more than one year. The money wasn't. It was enough to live on playing in the orchestra, but I also had many opportunities to play in the recording studios in San Juan, and that's where the real money is. I mean, recordings paid pretty well. And then there was the occasional one where it takes you ten minutes to record a jingle for a commercial, and you get paid $200. So that was fine. But then near the end of the year there was a the usual, I found, every year the orchestra as a whole negotiated with management for a better contract. I had learned and observed throughout the year that there were, as a whole in the in the population ... of Puerto Rico, people who wanted to continue as a commonwealth, people who wanted Puerto Rico to become a state, and people who wanted Puerto Rico to be an independent country. Tom: Uh-huh. Rebecca: And I guess there's a lot of history about the commonwealth situation that was quite distasteful to the Independentistas. I never really knew the details or if I did, I've forgotten them. But we had some Independentistas in the orchestra, one man in particular I'm thinking of, who really resented the presence of the ‘gringos.’ Resented us, I mean absolutely could not stand that we were in the orchestra. So when the time came to negotiate, he told us right out - it was a meeting, an orchestra meeting - told all of us 'gringos’ that we had no right to have any voice in this because it was not our orchestra. So, that was the first time in my life had I ever been or felt dismissed and hated and stereotyped because, really, of the color of my skin and where I was from. Tom: Mmhmm. Rebecca: And it was, I didn't think I could work with him. He wasn't the only one. He was just the most outspoken one. And I started feeling like there might be better places for me to be. So I originally spent the whole year thinking I would spend another year there at least, and at the very end of the year I decided, no, I'm gonna go back somewhere, move to a big city where there are many teachers and many orchestras and a good professional orchestra for me to listen to and learn from and so on. So that's what I did. I moved to Evanston, Illinois, to be near the Chicago area. Tom: Okay. And so did you have a job in Evanston or did you go back to school? Rebecca: Uhm, Okay, you've asked me some questions about Evanston. I wanna jump back to high school, �Tom: Okay. Rebecca: 'cause I was in early college 'cause there were some things I wanted to say. Tom: Okay. All right. Rebecca: The first thing I want to say is that as a senior, I competed in a young artist competition in Casper and Cheyenne. And I was beaten by the same person, a pianist, who was pretty good. I was okay too, for my age and my level. And what to me is the interesting thing, and what was the beneficial thing to me about this was that all the string teachers who were concerned, that being the violin professor at University of Wyoming, who was one of the judges in Cheyenne, my teacher at University of Wyoming, uh, Curtis Peacock in Casper, who was not only the conductor of the Civic Symphony, but also the string instructor at Casper College. And maybe some other string teachers that I don't remember, said, they all said the same [thing]: "A pianist at the same level will always sound better than a string player because the string player at that level is still learning to play in tune. Still learning tone production." And while pianists do have to work on tone production, they don't have anything to say about whether they're in tune or not. They don't have to learn that. For obvious reasons. Tom: Right. Rebecca: So they all kind of felt that at least I should have been, should have won, or I don't know how it would have been worked. Anyway, I lost to this person. Curtis said to me, "Uhm, you worked really hard on your concerto. How would you like to play it, perform it with the Casper College Baroque ensemble?", which was really, you know, their chamber orchestra. "Furthermore, how would you like to perform it here in Casper and on tour?" So of course I said yes, I'd love to. And so I got a better deal than the winner. I didn't have the prestige of playing with the symphony, but in terms of practical experience, it's a wonderful opportunity to be able to, if you're being a soloist, to have more than one crack at it. [A concerto is a composition for one or more solo instruments with orchestral accompaniment] Tom: Uh-huh. Rebecca: So, you know, we played on tour and we played in Casper and I still remember playing in some little tiny town up in the northwest part of the state like Frannie or Deaver, or one of those. I just have this very clear memory of sitting on some stage with a tiny handful of people in the audience and-and performing my concerto. So it worked out really well for me. Tom: So the concerto was you and not the whole, and the Casper College orchestra. �Rebecca: Correct. Yeah. Tom: Huh. Great. Rebecca: Yeah, and there was another opportunity I had that I'll just add, many string students [in Casper] also have had. Let me think, Rick Rongstad; cello and bass, Dale Bohren; bass, Andrea Reynolds DiGregorio; cello. And a few violinists, probably, whose names I can't recall now, we all went to this music camp called Congress of Strings. It was a national effort. I think it was probably one string player from each of the 50 states. A huge string orchestra, a really big deal, really very high level of music making. Tom: Where was this? Rebecca: Well, it was held at UCLA for quite a while, and then the year that I went, it was held at the University of Washington in Seattle. Tom: Mmhmm. Rebecca: And it was a full scholarship. And they may also even have paid our transportation. I don't remember. I just know that I got to go and it didn't cost my parents anything. And it was eight weeks long. And it was um, a tremendous opportunity 'cause you're there with some really amazing performers. I remember one of the cellists that was there, he ended up in the Saint Paul Chamber Orchestra, Saint Paul, Minnesota. That's one of the premiere orchestras in the world. And he ended up in that cello section. So I was of course very low on the totem pole, but I didn't really notice 'cause the music we played was so wonderful. We played, I mean you're restricted as a string orchestra to just a few pieces. And one of them is the [19th century Russian composer Pyotr Ilyich] Tchaikovsky Serenade for Strings, which is just one of the most lush, showy, beautiful pieces in the world. And then Mahler, Gustav Mahler, a German composer of the late 1900s. His Fifth Symphony, the slow movement is for strings and harp. And they dredged up a good harp player from somewhere. At Congress of Strings. And we played that, and there's nothing like Mahler. He's he was just drunk with the beauty of music, and you could tell by the way he composed. Tom: Mmhmm. Rebecca: So I will never forget playing those two pieces. It was really something and the local, there's a Musicians' Union Chapter [in Casper, the American Federation of Musicians] provided the scholarship. So because, as a direct result of my involvement with the symphony as a high school student, although I was at the end of my sophomore year in college, or was a freshmanfreshman year of college when I went, I still got the benefit of that scholarship. �Tom: Uh-huh. Rebecca: So that was-that was something. Tom: When you mentioned, I just wanted to ask, did you ever know John Stovall? Rebecca: Yes, he ended up with the Boston Symphony. Tom: Yeah, right was. He's younger than you probably, right? Rebecca: About a year or two, yeah. Well, let’s see, you wanted to know what I did after Puerto Rico, right? Tom: Yeah. Rebecca: Well, I moved to Evanston, Illinois, so that I could go to the Chicago Symphony [concerts]. And I found out once I moved there that they had what they called was a training orchestra for the Chicago Symphony. It was actually a very excellent youth orchestra. I auditioned and got into that. I got an office job in Evanston part time so that I could work till about 2:00 in the afternoon, take the elevated train that turns into a subway partway there downtown, get to orchestra hall, rehearse, come home, eat supper, practice. Uhm, do it all over again. I did that for a semester till Christmas I think, and then I was just too tired. So I went full time at the office that I was working, and quit the Civic Orchestra and just took lessons and practiced. And then that year I applied for some graduate programs and got into the masters program at Northwestern, right there in Evanston. Tom: Yeah, Okay. Rebecca: Well, that's what I did. The second year I was in Evanston, that would have been, let me think, ’79- ‘80 was Puerto Rico, ‘80- ‘81 was being in Evanston [the] first year, ‘81- ‘82 was the year I did my masters. Tom: Mmhmm. Rebecca: That was great. Tom: So you got a masters in cello performance at Northwestern? Rebecca: Correct. �Tom: That’s a one year program? Rebecca: Right. They had, they were so expensive they had to do something. So that's what they did. They reduced their requirements to the scope of a year. Tom: And then you spent another year in Chicago? Rebecca: I did. Um, I have to tell a story about my masters degree recital. I had a really fun teacher at Northwestern and he and I both knew that some of the music I was going to perform at my recital was a little beyond me, so I was lamenting to him, you know, everybody’s gonna hear that it was, uh, by Tchaikovsky, the Rococo Variations, this very showy, highly difficult piece. I said, "They're going to hear that my technique is not up to this piece. It's not going to be a perfect, note perfect recital." And he agreed. No, not quite. But yeah, you're here to learn. He tried. And I said, "Okay, as long as it's not boring, you know, it can be anything. I can miss some notes. Not many, but as many as I'm going to. It can't be boring." So then, I don't remember if he told me this before or after my recital, but he told me he had a terrible tussle with himself how he was going to break it to me that my playing was boring. (laughs) Tom: Really? Rebecca: I have always been glad that he was honest with me. Because one does not want to be a boring performer. So now I have to jump ahead. Now let's see the third one. I'm not going to jump ahead. There's just a continuation of this "boring" story. So then I completed my master's degree and the office that I'd been working at, I ended up working there during spring break and summer and things like that. So they were-they found room for me when I graduated and I went part-time. The year after my masters. Thinking I'd wasted time and money, 'cause I all I had was two little tiny teaching jobs at community schools of music in the area. And I was sure neither of them would ever go anywhere. One of them was a Suzuki teaching job. And one of them was a regular, just regular non-Suzuki, and the Dean of the School of Music at Northwestern had said to me, when I had started there, that my chances of getting a college teaching job were greatly increased if I had some Suzuki experience, because at that time the Suzuki movement was really taking off. Tom: Uh-huh. Rebecca: So, you know, I took this little dinky job that had like three students for which I had to drive an hour one way. Figuring it would never go anywhere, and also feeling like I didn't know enough, so I took a Suzuki pedagogy class on my own initiative, paying out of my own pocket, down at DePaul University, which I had to take the El, [elevated train] I don't know, 45 minutes �south to Loyola University. It wasn't that far, I guess, but a fair way to take part in a Suzuki pedagogy class. Which, to make a long story short, I ended up with a job at the University of Wisconsin Oshkosh teaching University students and Suzuki students combined to make a full time position for me because I took that said ... pedagogy course. And the other community school of music, for which I traveled an hour one way and taught a few more students. It turns out that that was a very respected community school. It was called the Jack Benny Center for the Arts and about more than 50 percent of the music faculty at the University of Wisconsin Oshkosh Music Department - when I went up there to audition and interview for the job - more than 50 percent of them had first of all, gone to Northwestern. Had nostalgic feelings about that. Second of all, had taught at the Jack Benny Center, and also had nostalgic feelings about that, which certainly didn't hurt me. Tom: Yeah. Rebecca: At this interview. So it was great. I spent that whole year feeling like a failure and like I'd wasted my time and was I ever going to be any sort of professional. I dropped the idea of trying to play in an orchestra because, there were kind of two reasons. Playing in an orchestra as a string player, it's kind of bad for your playing as a as a rule, if you do too much of it, 'cause you can't hear yourself the way you can if you're playing chamber music, for example, or playing as a soloist. And I discovered that, playing in the Colorado Philharmonic after University of Oregon, then in the Puerto Rico Symphony. And then again in the Colorado Philharmonic before I moved to Evanston. So more than a year of playing just in an orchestra or mostly in an orchestra. I could tell it was starting to hurt my playing, but the real reason was, to audition for orchestras you have to practice certain orchestral excerpts, just like you would practice a concerto until you have every single note perfect. Well, that's not so bad for excerpts from Beethoven's Ninth, excerpts from Brahms symphonies and things like that. [Johannes Brahms, 19th century German composer] But when it comes to tone poems by Richard Strauss, those things, it's not just that they're hard, they're just not very rewarding musically. [Richard Strauss, 19th and 20th century German composer and conductor (son of Johann Strauss of “Blue Danube” fame.)]The cello parts that you have to learn, at least I found them not rewarding, and I discovered that I just didn't have the motivation to spend the hours and hours and hours and hours preparing those kinds of excerpts and, I don't know, I noticed that it was a really competitive thing. I mean, I always knew it was, but I had a friend in the Puerto Rico Symphony. She was a gringo. She had been in the orchestra for quite a while and she had been trying to get back to the upper 48 for quite a while and she was really good and she was one of these people that could make herself practice these excerpts and she flew, of course, at her own expense, to Texas. I forget, to audition for which major professional orchestra there, and she told me she played a note perfect audition. I mean, she didn't miss a single note, and did not get the job, and that was when she learned that something more was needed. So that, I think that gave me pause, along with the fact that what I really wanted to play was Beethoven quartets and, I don't know. Chamber music was very �attractive to me, and the only way you can really play chamber music is if you're part of a university faculty. Tom: Uh-huh. Rebecca: Unless you get really lucky and you're really, really, really good and you get a place in a professional string quartet. But they often also have teaching positions somewhere. So I applied for this, well, the person that was in this Suzuki pedagogy course that I got to know, was commuting up to Oshkosh to teach in their brand new [Suzuki] cello program. They were paying for her to rent a car and drive up on Saturday morning, teach all day Saturday, and then drive home. Well, I just wasn't going to do that. I just, was not going to do that. And she was thinking of stopping. And I contacted them and I said, you know, I know this woman who's been coming up to teach your students. If you can offer me a full-time job where I can become a resident of the community and live on what you pay me, I'm interested. Well, lo and behold, there was a fireball up there. Who was in charge of the Suzuki program, who went to the university people, who [the Suzuki program] ... was housed in the university music department at that point, and said let's get together. You guys need a cello professor, and you don't have enough students. And we need a cello teacher and we don't have enough students. But together, can we put together a position? And they did. They came up with the money, they came up with, it was a University of Wisconsin system faculty job I had. They had to advertise it. And I had to audition and interview. And there was one other person who was also selected to audition and interview, and I got the job. Tom: And that's in Oshkosh, not Madison, right? Rebecca: That was. There are so many campuses of the University of Wisconsin. It was just incredible [to me at the time], how many. There are little centers all throughout the state in little areas and four-year branches. Many in many places. I told that to my mother, she said, Yeah, Wisconsin is a very progressive state. Tom: Yeah, that's true. That's been. I hope it gets back to that. Okay. So you were in. So how long did you have? Maybe we should. Let's see. How much notes do you have left there, Becky? I got somewhere I need to be about 3:30. Rebecca: Oh, we might be able to wrap up by 3:15 maybe? Tom: Okay, alright. Rebecca: Should we try? �Tom: Yeah, let's. Okay, so where did you go after that? Rebecca: Well, let's, I want to tell one story about being at the University of Wisconsin Oshkosh. Tom: Okay. Rebecca: Well, it was, I began playing regular faculty recitals. I'd been doing this for a few years and people always come backstage afterwards, and congratulate you and so on, and tell you how much they enjoyed it. Well, one person said, "There are two kinds of recitals, one where you're sitting there looking at your watch, wishing it would be over, and another one where you don't want it to end. And your performance was the second kind." Tom: That's nice. Rebecca: So I knew that the practicing I had been doing in the interim had been working. Tom: So not boring? Rebecca: Evidently not. I mean, that person had no reason to schmooze me. No reason at all. Tom: Good. Rebecca: Okay. Tom: I'm sorry to interrupt you. Go ahead. Rebecca: No. So we're done with University of Wisconsin Oshkosh. Uhm, I want to say yeah, go ahead. Tom: How long were you there? Rebecca: Seven years. Tom: Oh, I didn't know that, okay. Rebecca: So yeah. Tom: And did you work that? Was it a tenure track position? �Rebecca: No, no. It was a one year renewable contract. It was adjunct. Well, I don't know. I guess I was an adjunct faculty. I don't know what they called it because I was a hybrid. I was, the Suzuki program was not part of the university, administratively. They just used their offices. So I don't [know]. All I know is my contract ran a year and then was renewed. Tom: Been talking a lot there. Do you need to get a drink of water or something? Rebecca: I don't know. I'll try to manage, I can. I want to say something about, something I faced as principal cellist of the Wyoming Symphony Orchestra. I became principal cellist in the fall of 1992. And what I faced, of course, was having to share the stage with Mark O'Connor, playing a piece that I'd never seen before and it was really hard. Tom: Right. Rebecca: -but I want to go back to something that I did, I'm not sure what year it would have been. I got married and my husband got teacher certification in natural science. And we ended up in Tecumseh, Nebraska. He was teaching science at their combined middle school and high school. ... So it's not that far from Lincoln and Omaha. I decided I would try to get into some of those orchestras that were up there. So I got some audition music and I looked at the deadline and started learning it, and we decided that I if I did any work outside the home, it would be playing the cello. So, I got this audition music and I ran into a piece that I'd never seen before on an audition list. And it was unbelievably hard. And there are two ways of tackling something like that. One is, you learn the notes and then you sort of beat it up to tempo. You set the metronome at the tempo you can play it at and you play it, then you up the metronome one click which is, I don't know ... but it's a few more beats per second [indistinguishable]. Yeah, and you play it again, and then you up the metronome again. You play [it] again. You work it up to speed as best you can that way or you change your technique so that you can play better and more easily. And that changing of technique is a long process, long and intensive. And I looked at the deadline for that audition and I decided I would rather change my technique than play that audition. So I did. I engaged in some very focused, very intensive practicing. One of the things I worked on was my sitting posture where, you know, you sit, you pick up the cello. Your back might be really good, your back muscles might be great, you know, and you start to play and everything starts twisting up and tightening up in bad ways. You have to have some muscle support when you play, so you can't talk about being completely relaxed 'cause then you wouldn't even be able to push the strings down or hold the bow, but managing your muscles so you don't distort what they're best for. That's what I tackled in that practice session with no knowledge of the future, you understand? No, no crystal ball that told me I was going to be onstage with Mark O'Connor about, I don't know, eight years later or something. Facing a piece that was nearly too hard for me. So that was very satisfying practicing and it really put my playing- headed me in a different direction. So that I was a much better player. And playing was much more easy, and my sound �was better, and a whole bunch of other things were better. Playing fast was easier. So that when I landed in Casper as the principal cellist of the symphony, I was ready for it. The principal cello ... solos that you have to play, things like the William Tell Overture by Rossini. [19th century Italian composer Gioachino Rossini's Overture to his opera, William Tell] That's best known, of course, as The Lone Ranger theme. But the opening is slow and it's a cello quartet, and the principal cello has the most wonderful and hardest part of the four cellos. I enjoyed that so much. I enjoyed playing that solo and I did it really well and I know I did. So I wasn't in over my head at all. It was comfortable, it was a comfortable job and we did a Brahms Piano Concerto. I ... [think] the second one? John Browning, who is a world class pianist, was our soloist. We played that in Oshkosh too. I was principal of the Oshkosh Symphony. And there's a very, very beautiful principal cello solo in the slow movement of that piece, I'd played it before. There is an easy part of it and then there's a harder part of it and it's just gorgeous and I played it. And then you sort of hand over to the piano after you play the second part of the solo. So I looked at John Browning when I was done, and he nodded at me and smiled, when he started playing, so I knew I had done a really good job. That, moments like that, were just wonderful and I never felt like I was over my head. Okay, so. Are we going till 3:15 'cause I think, probably, we can finish up in that time. Tom: What? Okay. Ah, alright, I have someRebecca: Will that work for you? Tom: Some, I'll have some questions, but maybe we could have a second session for those. I don't know that they'll take much time. So how did you end up? Are you going to tell me how it is you came to leave Nebraska and come back to Casper? Rebecca: Oh yeah, well, so my husband, Ellis, was teaching science and there were some unbelievable behavior problems in his classroom. You wouldn't think of it in a little town, but it was the case. And he had a very unsupportive principal who just didn't back him up in discipline. So he quit. He-he burned out faster than I've ever seen anybody burn out on teaching. He quit in March of that year, just broke his contract, and we moved. I'd been in touch with my father. My mother had died in ‘84, and this was ‘92, spring of 1992, and he told me they didn't have a principal cellist in the symphony, and that they were paying more or less a professional rate they'd had to cut down on what they were paying, but it was sort of our only safety net because Ellis was not going to teach school again. That was a very bad experience. He lost thirty pounds. He had insomnia for the only time he's ever in his life had insomnia. It was just terrible so we couldn't wait to get away. So we moved to Casper and I auditioned for the principal cello position and got it. And Ellis started remodeling houses and all that. Being a former farmer, he had a lot of carpenter skills and things like that. Maybe your questions are more important than what I have in my notes, except about O'Connor. �Tom: Do that. Yeah, no. Okay, tell me about Mark O'Connor. Rebecca: May of 1997, I had never heard of Mark O'Connor. I just knew he was our guest artist, and the music librarian whose job it was to get our music into our folders and let us know when we could come to the symphony office to pick them up, said, “Guess what? You're playing a duo with this guy, just you and him. And he supplied a tape recording.” Okay well, shrug. I was conscientious so I always picked up my folder as soon as it was ready and got busy on the music. So I got my music and I looked at this part and I played through it and it didn't look so bad. And I played the tape, and the tempo was so fast on the tape that I didn't recognize it, didn't realize it was the piece until I did, suddenly realize how fast I was going to have to play this piece. And the problem of course, which I couldn't help but notice [was] the length of the fiddle fingerboard, or the violin, is about half the length of the cello fingerboard. And I pretty much had to match Mark O'Connor note-for-note in this piece, "Limerock" was the name of the piece. So it's like he had to run the 50 yard dash and I had to run the 100 yard dash, and I had to come to the finish line at the same time that he got to the finish line. Tom: Right. Rebecca: -and he was by far the better player, in addition. ... and I had, the style was alien. So we get to the dress rehearsal. Tom: Had he, had he never performed this before with a cello, did he? Rebecca: Oh, many times. He had performed it with Yo-Yo Ma. They often programmed it. Tom: Okay. Rebecca: So we played it at the dress rehearsal and I was sweating. Of course, I was just sweating it because it was so hard. I was pushing to the very outer limits of what I could do. So I played it note-for-note at the dress rehearsal. He stopped and he looked at me, looked kind of puzzled and said, "you know, Yo-Yo had trouble with this piece." And my reaction was, well, as if I didn't. Just 'cause you can't see it. So Holly Turner was the manager, the executive director of the orchestra at that time, and it was her job to make sure that the guest artist got where he or she needed to go at the right time, so she was driving him around and taking him out for meals and things like that. And he told her a bunch of stories about past performances of this piece, or past attempted performances, including somebody, some principal cellist somewhere, who had been unable to play the piece and had - they had to take it off the program. And I think it must have been a case of not practicing it hard enough. �Tom: Uh-huh. Rebecca: As this person was way above me in the profession, and you don't get to the point that she was at without being really good and auditioning successfully, and a bunch of other things. So sort of a case of the tortoise and the hare. Tom: Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Rebecca: So that was, that was not comfortable. It was too scary, too stressful, [to be comfortable] but it was worth doing. Tom: Yeah, yeah. ... That's great. [indistinguishable] Rebecca: Now I have a couple of associated stories, but I don't know if I try to tell them now, should I? They're short. Tom: Yeah, sure. Okay. Rebecca: After I was done, that is, had played "Limerock," there was more of the concert, including Mark O'Connor's Fiddle Concerto for Fiddle and Orchestra. And in that, the last movement of the concerto, there was a cadenza. And for the non musicians, I'll just say that the cadenza is the part where in a concerto where everything stops and the soloist has a chance to show off, and in the 19th century, cadenzas were improvised. Classical soloists improvised cadenzas. But then that got out of fashion and cadenzas started being written out, and the soloists just played the cadenza that was written into the music. Well, Mark O'Connor, of course he improvised his cadenza. And of course I could enjoy it completely because I was done with the hot-water part of it and it was one of the most memorable musical experiences of my life to sit, what, ten feet away from him, and watch him, and listen to him improvise this amazing cadenza. So one more O'Connor story, if you have time. And then a couple of post-concert, post-Mark O'Connor's concert stories could have stayed with me. First of all, Mark O'Connor was in Laramie, oh four, five, six, years after he was in Casper, and of course I went down to hear him, took my children. And he takes care of his fans. He sits out in the lobby after the concert and signs CDS, signs programs, and so on. For as long a line as there is. So I got in line. I didn't want a signature, but I wanted to ask him what he was thinking, programming "Limerock" in a community orchestra. What was he thinking that he did that to me? That was sort of the purport, and he looked kind of blank. He said, "Well, community musicians play well." I said, "yeah, but do we play that well?" That was his firm belief that in spite of having, not having every cellist that he played with be able to play it. I mean, Yo-Yo Ma could play it. He just had a little trouble with one section. When I saw the YouTube uhm, video of them, I saw what he did to to solve that problem. And it made sense. So I was invited to the reception after the concert. �Tom: Okay. Rebecca: Yeah, and somebody at that reception said something. Maybe it was a board member that said it, I don't know. I didn't know the members of the board, and they didn't hold receptions for the whole orchestra at that point. I was invited at the last minute 'cause I was a kind of soloist at that concert. Anyway, uhm, this person said "You know, I noticed that you didn't smile until it was all over." And I didn't say it, but I thought, "it's not my job to smile." (laughs) "It's my job to play the cello. Don't expect me to smile" 'Cause it was scary and stressful. Tom: Yeah. Rebecca: I was thrilled that I had done it, but I can't say that it was fun like playing [the] William Tell solo or something like that. Tom: Mmhmm. Mmhmm. Rebecca: So the other thing, I'll be quick 'cause I know you have to go. Somebody at that reception congratulated me and said I had really, distinguished the whole symphony and the whole city and so on. And I said, "Well, great, how about, how about a raise? How about hazardous duty pay for work dangerous to my ego and reputation?" Yeah, I thought it was a harmless quip. Well, you never experienced such a chilly tide of disapproval as swept that room. Tom: So this was, this was after you played the "Limerock" or this was six years later in Laramie? Rebecca: No, it was after, was at the reception Tom: Uh-huh. Rebecca: -for that concert. It-it was a joke, I thought a harmless little quip. Tom: Mmhmm. Rebecca: But apparently to some people money is so important that you do not joke about it. Tom: Yeah. Rebecca: I don't know. It was a major social gaffe, that I just did not see coming and didn't understand after it had happened. �Tom: Well, that's really interesting. I'd like to, maybe if we could have another conversation, ask you some more about your departure from the symphony, and about your feeling of the symphony as an organ, as a institution over all that time. I mean, you were connected with it off and on for a long time. And that's really, that's rare. Rebecca: Sure. Tom: So if we could maybe talk more about some of those things. Rebecca: That’d be fine. Tom: Other time I don't 'cause I don't want to squish them up now and I know you have a lot more stories you could tell me too. So this stuff is really interesting. Thank you so much, and I'm learning so much that I didn't know, which is always fun. So thanks. Maybe off the tape we can talk about another time when we can both do this again. Rebecca: Yeah, I don't know how to end the meeting and keep us talking. I suppose you could call me. Tom: Yeah, why don't we? Or maybe just? Rebecca: To end the recording. I'm not sure how to stop the recording and continue the meeting. You want me to try? Alright, let me see. Recording… � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource WyoHistory.org Wyoming Symphony Orchestra Oral History Project Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC-NC/1.0/">http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC-NC/1.0/</a> Date Created Date of creation of the resource. 2022-2023 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource WyoHistory.org; Rebecca Hein Language A language of the resource ENG Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context NCA 01.i.2022.02 Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound; Text Description An account of the resource Audio files and transcripts created and edited by Rebecca Hein and students at Casper College during an oral history project with players of the Wyoming Symphony Orchestra. The oral histories were conducted by Hein between 2022 and 2023 and are a part of Wyohistory.org publishing project. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Becky Hein Wyoming Symphony Orchestra Oral History Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC-NC/1.0/">http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC-NC/1.0/</a> Date Created Date of creation of the resource. 2022-09-21 and 2022-09-26 Description An account of the resource Audio files and transcripts for oral history interview with Wyoming Symphony Orchestra player Becky Hein. These interviews were conducted on September 21 and September 26 or 2022. Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound; Text Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Becky Hein Language A language of the resource ENG Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. WyoHistory.org Wyoming Symphony Orchestra Oral History Project, NCA 01.i.2022.02 WyCaC US. Casper College Archives and Special Collections. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context NCA 01.i.2022.02_RebeccaHein Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource M4A; MP3; PDF https://caspercollege.cvlcollections.org/files/original/a13a25ca8ffc42cff3d322d9a7398d66.mp3 b0f0872f7c3ed9d48c1048f76b414d0c https://caspercollege.cvlcollections.org/files/original/8517d5d650ba4e2de4693d1c0e44e79f.pdf 2ca3a96783a2c0a2277a1ab6f24607c1 PDF Text Text Wyoming Symphony Oral History Project Rebecca Hein interviewing Carolyn Deuel, June 4, 2022 Date transcribed: July 11, 2022 Rebecca: Great, so can you still hear me? Carolyn: Yes, I can. Rebecca: Okay, thank you very much for giving your time today. Let’s start with your name and your instrument and a little bit about your musical background, how you came to play that instrument or those instruments. Then we’ll go from there. Carolyn: Okay, Carolyn Deuel and I play percussion in the symphony mostly mallets. I have a degree in piano from the University of Northern Colorado. A degree in organ from the University of Iowa and while I was at Iowa I took percussion from Tom Davis who was the head of percussion and actually a Casper native. And so, when I got done with my master’s I came back to Casper in the summer of 1976 and they were doing the musical 1776. Tom Kinser [Head of the Casper College music department, saxophone instructor, and conductor of the stage band, in the mid-1970s] was one of the ones knowing I took percussion at Iowa so he invited me to play in the city band, and when Curtis Peacock was looking for another percussionist for 1776 Tom sent him my way. Rebecca: Okay, can we backtrack a bit and can you explain exactly what mallet percussion is? Carolyn: Yes, it is a percussion that is playing keyboard type instruments, but you are playing them with mallets. Instead of your fingers like on piano or organ. That’s like the glockenspiel or bells, xylophone, the stand up chimes, the vibraphone and the marimba. But then I also play, when it’s needed naturally, things like triangle, claves and you know those kinds of things as well as bass drum. �Rebecca: Right. So the vibraphone and marimba it’s my understanding that those are larger versions of the xylophone? One with wood and one with metal? Carolyn: The marimba is wood and it has bigger keys or pieces of wood for the different pitches just like a piano has. Also bigger vibrating pieces of metal tube underneath, and it’s a more mellow sound. So, often the xylophone is a brittle sound and it will cut through things and marimba is more of a solo instrument. The vibraphone is totally metal keys and the thing that is different about it is it has a pedal like a piano so it’s the only one of the mallet instruments that has that feature and therefore, you can make the sound ring and mold different sounds together so it is a frequently used instrument to make ringing melodic sounds. Rebecca: Yeah, can you explain a little bit more in detail what the pedal does on the piano? So that we have a point of reference. Carolyn: The pedal, there are dampers on each of the strings the strings make the sound on a piano. There are dampers on the strings, so if you just play a piano note then the damper goes right back on the string and it stops the sound. But if you have the pedal on, then the dampers are raised and all the sounds you play will mush together until you release the damper pedal and stop the sound by having the dampers go back on the strings. Rebecca: Okay, thanks! Carolyn: Mhmm. Rebecca: Okay, okay I’ve got a question I don’t know if I asked it or not. What is mallet percussion exactly? Did I ask you that? Carolyn: Yeah, and I told you that they’re instruments that have keys like a piano like C, C#, D all of the different keys. But, you play them with mallets so you have a stick that you’re holding in your hand that has a ball on the other end of it and you strike the different notes with the �mallets. So, for most of those we’ve talked about you’ve got either a plastic or yarn head on the mallet that strikes so that naturally your not going to hit the vibraphone or the marimba with a hard mallet that’s going to damage the marimba or be too much of a brittle sound with the vibraphone. But, with the bells and with the xylophone you want a bright sound so those mallets are plastic or even when you are doing marching band or something where you really want the mallets then it’s a metal ball on the end that strikes the bell. Then with the chimes, the stand up chimes, you have a wooden thing that looks more like a hammer and so you strike the lip of the chimes with that. Rebecca: Okay, and I’m for some reason thinking about the Dance of the Sugar Plum Fairy and the Nutcracker— Carolyn: That is—that instrument is written for celeste [pronounced chell-essta] and in the old days with the symphony we had an actual [celeste] that looked like a teeny tiny grand piano. So that it had a lid that you lifted, it had two rows of metal tubes that stood up and then on the end a piece of metal that was hooked to the key it had a square block that would hit those and so they have a very special sound as you know, anyone who hears the Nutcracker, knows that sound of the Sugar Plum Fairy. But, it was a small instrument so there wasn’t the full range that I needed so I would have to play, you know bring the music down a octave to play within scope of that and now what they use is just a, go ahead and use a synthesizer a celeste sound on it. So you are playing it like a keyboard, like a piano. Rebecca: Ah, and in your opinion does the synthesizer really sound like an acoustic. Carolyn: I like the celeste better. And I’ll tell you what this past...Christmas when we were doing the Nutcracker just a suite from it. They really had trouble coming up with a sound they all liked and so it was a problem but they finally came up with one they accepted. �Rebecca: That’s rather interesting, personally I’ve always felt that synthesizers were never going to replace actual instruments and people— Carolyn: I’m with you. But unfortunately they’re cheaper and they stay in tune so a lot, a lot, a lot of people are using them, you know. Rebecca: Yeah, okay well I have to tell you this, maybe it will interest historical records but um. I was a freshman at the University of Wyoming and I was killing myself trying to learn to play the cello and it was so hard because I was still at the stage where I was struggling to play in tune and things like that. So one day I went into the sound lab. There was a guy there whose whole life was composing music on the synthesizer. I think I said something like, “Can you really compare what you’re doing to what I’m doing?” He knew I was a cello performance major and he said “Yeah” and I said, ‘How can you figure?” I was trying not to be adversarial but it was such a struggle to—a Carolyn: Oh boy— Rebecca: Learn to play the cello. He said, “Well I think it’s the same because I control everything this synthesizer does.” So he was saying he played it like anyone else plays an instrument. I went away from that conversation feeling really stunned because if there’s one thing I couldn’t do at that stage of my skills is control what the cello did. Carolyn: (laughing) Rebecca: It was a great conversation. Carolyn: That’s neat, very cool. Well you know the Shepherd of the Hills [Presbyterian church in Casper, Wyo.] just got a new organ and they are very proud of it because they, they had an instrument that wasn’t very good and what they did. [Inaudible] is the organist there and they got one that has samples from the different organs of the world. So, they invited the folks of us who �play the Bach’s Lunch concerts on the pipe organ at Saint Mark’s [Episcopal church in Casper, Wyo.] to play a recital there and it was fun! I played a Franck piece [Cesar Franck, 19th century French composer and pianist] with the French Cavaille Coll organ sound [Cavaille Coll was a 19th century French organ builder]. Those were special organs that had all kinds of different mechanisms to them. I used the samplings from that for the Franck. Then, I used an American organ for an American piece and it was fun to hear the difference, but still it's like you're hearing a recording, you know. And I don’t ever want to hurt their feelings but it isn’t the same as the pipe organ. Rebecca: Well, organs are a very difficult instrument in my opinion because where you have your hands it seems to me there is more than one keyboard. Is that right? Carolyn: Yes, and then you have the full pedal board too so you have your feet doing the third part you know. Rebecca: That’s why I think it’s difficult, almost as difficult as the double bass. Carolyn: Aha (laughter) Rebecca: Okay great. Okay, is there anything else you want to add about your background before we go onto your affiliation with symphony? Carolyn: No, I don’t think so. But I’m glad to get to tell the story about 1776 because that gave me an easy entrance into the symphony. It was the symphony that was doing the 1776 musical so by Kinser telling Curtis that I played percussion, and by my playing for him and doing an okay job in the musical. I’ve been in the symphony since 1976. Rebecca: Okay, and what instruments did you play in the 1776, in that musical? Carolyn: Well, that is the only time in my life that I ever played timpani. So he had a need for a person in the pit [orchestra pit, where musicians are grouped in an area lower than the stage] and �he could only have two performers so I mostly played bells. But, I did do a little bit of timpani because that was needed. So, I am trying to think, am I right? Was I playing or was Roger Cliff playing? I know that I was doing stuff that I hadn’t done before, and never did again. And I can’t play snare [snare drum] because I never learned it. So, it was mostly: bells, chimes, triangle, I don’t think there was tambourine in 1776. That's another instrument that’s a common one. Of course, it’s been a long time since I did that. Rebecca: Okay, for, for the historical record describe what a tambourine is. Carolyn: It's like a drum head with jingles on it, they're actually called jingles, and they’re pieces of metal that are on the sides. So the drum head is on a wooden frame and it has these metal pieces that clink together and make a jingly sound. Rebecca: So you hold the frame and you pat it? Carolyn: Shake it, you either shake it or you pat it. Yeah, you either hit it like a drum or you shake it. All the pop stars, pop bands, had people who would shake it or hit it on their knee and then come up and hit it on their hand. Rebecca: Okay, thank you Carolyn: huh Rebecca: Okay, is there anything you want to add about the various percussion instruments you have played before we go into your time with the symphony? Carolyn: No. Rebecca: Okay, so you joined the symphony in 1976. Carolyn: Right. Rebecca: And have you played in the symphony ever since? Carolyn: Yes. �Rebecca: Okay, and it’s my understanding, you referred to the timpani, that is a separate percussion instrument and you have a timpanist playing the timpani usually? Carolyn: In the Wyoming Symphony? Yes. There is one person who plays the timpani. And the rest of us cover the other things. Rebecca: Okay, but you have performed on the timpani before, and presumably could? Carolyn: Just a fraction. No, in fact let’s erase that and pretend I never played the timpani. Rebecca: Okay. Carolyn: Okay, (laughter) Rebecca: They have to be tuned, there’s three of them and they all have to be tuned, right? Carolyn: They’re up to five and they do have to be tuned. They have a pedal on them that has several pitches so you have to tune. Each one has a range of about a fifth, about five notes. So then, you have bigger to smaller with different pitches and then by what is needed in a given piece that says how many and by the technique of it. For instance, a lot of pieces that use—let’s say you are playing in the key of C, you would use the pedal in a G [A musical “key” means the note on which the scale is built, that in turn, the piece is based on]. And if there is a lot of time to move, if you needed an A or a D or an F or something else you could change the tuning on it. But if it’s fast notes where you have to go quickly then you would add a third one to be able to play more pitches or a fourth one or a fifth one. So, it depends on the range of the notes and how fast everything is. Rebecca: Now, that makes sense. Okay soCarolyn: Because each one can just play one note at a time. You knowRebecca: Yeah right, yeah because I am trying to make sure this is clear to the listener. Because each individual drum as it were, that is probably the wrong word for timpani- �Carolyn: No, their other name is kettle drum. So it is fine to call it timpani and drum. Rebecca: Yeah, it can only have one pitch so it's the equivalent of having a keyboard instrument with only four keys or five depending on how many drums you have. Carolyn: Right, then with your foot of course you can change them quickly. You know, but again you have to be sure it's in tune and it just depends on how many fast notes you have and things. Rebecca: Yeah that makes sense. Okay, so I was sitting here doing the math you’ve been playing in the symphony for more than 45 years, 46 to be exact, is that right? Carolyn: Right. Rebecca: Have you played every concert? Carolyn: No, and the reason for that is that the composers don’t always write us in. Rebecca: That is very true come to think of it. Carolyn: So we rarely play January concerts for the symphony because they usually do a smaller group of musicians and they often do classical music. And if there is any percussion it is usually just timpani. Now, Mozart once in a while would use triangle or something but generally the bigger use of percussion didn’t come in until the Romantic composers in the 1800s. Rebecca: Yeah, let’s back up and just clarify the term classical, because you and I know what it means but it’s not generally known that there's basically two meanings of the word or two connotationsCarolyn- Right, so when I’m talking about the classical literature of a symphony. I’m talking about the classical era of literature that went from 1750 to about 1810, and the main composers were Mozart and Haydn and the start of Beethoven. Rebecca: Yeah, Okay great. Okay so- of all the concerts you have played with the symphony can you describe a few that were more memorable than others? �Carolyn: I’m trying to think. In the early days we did more with the [Casper] Civic Chorale. So the performances of the Verdi Requiem and the Brahms Requiem [Latin text of the Catholic Mass for the Dead set to music] were very special times and the fun part for me was that I had also done those pieces in Mexico with the Civic Chorale with the Wyoming State Choir actually. Um, we had done the Verdi Requiem and I had done the Brahms Requiem at the University of Iowa. So they were pieces I knew and had sung and enjoyed. [Giuseppe Verdi, 19th century Italian composer] Rebecca: That always makes it easier. Carolyn: Yeah, and fun you know. Um, let’s see another one. ArtCore [Arts organization in Casper, Wyo.] did “Visas for Life” and it was in collaboration with Mariko Miller who was an Honorary Consul General of Japan. And her father was in the Japanese consulate at Washington D.C. when World War II was about to happen. He tried to avert that but there was nothing that could stop it. But her name, she was five at the time, her name was a code name. One day she was sitting at the table eating lunch and feeling perfectly fine and she heard her dad say ‘Mariko is under the weather today’. And of course it had nothing to do with her sitting there, it had to do with whatever message he was trying to pass on. So, in Casper then she was able to get another great story that happened in World War II. There were people in Lithuania, there was a Japanese ambassador to Lithuania. He woke up one day and there was sound outside and it turned out that there were many many hundreds of Jews that were trying to get to safety. To be able to get out of Lithuania they needed passports from the Japanese consulate, and they needed to be able to get on trains and get out of the country to safety. He had many wires with the Japanese government and they would not allow him to do it. So he was sitting there with all these people needing his help and not getting help from his government, and he finally decided he was going to sign them �anyway. He signed well over 2,000 [passports] and in that time span the passport was made to the woman of the family. So they don’t really know how many that covered, but he was still signing them. He was recalled to Japan and he was still signing them out the window of the train as he was having to leave. But she [Mariko] was able to bring the son of that ambassador and his wife to Casper and the symphony and the Civic Chorale and the school system all worked together and did this concert. And they had a talk and a film from that family. Symphony played Fanfare for the Common Man [by American composer Aaron Copland] and then I don’t remember what else but we started with that and you know the only percussion in that is bass drum and timpani and then it’s brass players. So I got to play the bass drum and it was a very powerful thing. The school system had essay contests and the winners of those contests were honored on stage that night at that concert. The Civic Chorale sang, the symphony played and it was wonderful. Rebecca: So Fanfare for the Common man is a piece by Aaron CoplandCarolyn: Yes, yesRebecca: Okay well that’s really interesting. Um, I want to jump over to various pieces you may have sung and or played in. I wanted to ask you about Beethoven’s Ninth. Have you sung in a choir for that? Carolyn: I have, it was fun. Various times there would be concerts that would be different literature you would have. So with Beethoven’s Ninth I actually just sang, but there were other concerts where we would sing, like Messiah [An oratorio (composition for small orchestra, soloists and choir) by George Friedrich Handel, German-British composer of the late 17th and early 18th centuries] but they would have more literature for the concert and I would get to, like, to play in the first half and sing in the second half. That was a lot of fun. But, with Beethoven’s �Ninth it’s very [inaudible] that we are talking about this right now because they [the Wyoming Symphony Orchestra] are getting ready to do it on October 8th. I will not be singing, but in the old days we had risers that had chairs so we could sit. Beethoven’s Ninth is written so it is 70 minutes of music and the choir sings only the last fifteen. So, you have the problem of what are you going to do? Are you going to make the choir stand there for 70 minutes? Or for 55 minutes? So in the old days with the seated risers it was no problem at all we could sit and totally enjoy the symphony and then stand and do our part when it was time. Then, somebody trashed those risers and another time we sang we were backstage and we were allowed to just come on for the fourth movement. It was very crowded because it was the Civic Chorale and College choirs so it’s not a comfortable thing to sing just because of the physical problem of it. We were squeezed onto risers. You could barely hold your music out and so it is not a favorite of chorale people, of a lot of us. We like it better when we are included in more of it and really are half of the show, but what’s going to happen in the fall is the chorale is- any of the chorale that wants to join the college choir will do that and will be rehearsing it separately. But there are a lot of us, about ten of us, that sit for performances. I actually sit when I play for symphony, most of the time I have a stool that I use. So, I am 70 years old and the only thing I cannot do is stand for a long time. So the word has come down that we won’t be able to have any chairs like we do at chorale concerts, so people will be standing for the fifteen minutes and I am not going to be there. But a lot of the people will enjoy doing it. They are going to allow them to come on just for the fourth movement and I haven’t really clocked how long but it will be a little longer than the fifteen minutes generally. At least they don’t have to stand for the 70. Rebecca: Yeah, another question I have. This comes from having had some voice performance major friends in college. They always explained to me that the human voice is a very delicate �instrument, it needs to be handled with care so that you’re warming up and not exceeding your range and not singing too loud and so on is all very important. I have always wondered how the choir and the soloists could manage sitting there through the first three movements and part of the fourth movement before they have to start singing. It must be very hard on the voice, is that true? Carolyn: Well you know there is a difference between someone with the voices you are talking about- possibly a little more delicate. It's like we are generally run of the mill singers for the most part so- it's not that bad. You will have warmed up a little bit beforehand but it’s not like when you have the whole group around you you're not really having to strain. I mean yes you are full voice when you get to the fortissimo [loudest] sections and everything but it's not really that bad. The vocalists you are speaking with probably have maybe more delicate voices in terms of what they need to be doing in a solo capacity. But you know if you are at a party or something like that and then you decide- oh let’s do some sing-a-longs people can sing and for the generals one’s of us it is not that hard on our voices. Rebecca: I see, so the four soloists don't really have any protective cover; their warmup that they did before the piece will last them. Carolyn: They probably have--you can warm your vocal cords up by doing kind of a humming or an ‘n’ sound so they probably know what will work for them to be able to keep their throats warm and their vocal cords a little bit stimulated. So I guess it’s probably the people that can sing after sitting there for that long that are going to succeed as soloists because they don’t have the benefit of being able to baby themselves. Rebecca: And it makes sense that there are probably lots of places where the orchestra is playing loud enough where they could do a bit of humming and never be heard. �Carolyn: Exactly. Rebecca: Well that is very interesting, to an instrumentalist all I know is suddenly they are having to sing and they didn’t get to warm up. That must be- the only thing that would be harder would be singing in a seven hour Wagner opera. Carolyn: (laughter) For sure. Rebecca: Okay, well great let’s see I am trying to cross out the questions as you answer them so I don’t ask them twice. Oh- You referred to the Messiah let’s go back to that and say a little more about it. Who it’s by, what it is, and why it’s significant. Carolyn: Okay well its actual title although I’ve seen printed other copies is accepted I think among the musicologists it is just called ‘Messiah’ rather than ‘The Messiah’ but Messiah. But Handel is the composer he was born the same year as Bach 1685 and he was in Germany but then he went to England and Bach stayed in Germany and there were various times when they could have met and I think they chose not to. (laughter) Because there isn’t any reason they couldn’t have crossed paths. [Audio cuts out 32:52-32:55] Carolyn: Hi, my screen went funny for a minute and then came back. Can you still hear me? Rebecca: Yeah, I can hear you. Great. And- the recording is still going. Carolyn: Very good, okay so. One story is the King was sort of snoozing and the piece finished and his wife jabbed him. And he was so startled that he stood up, and when the King stood up everyone stood up. So it has become a tradition that everyone stands for the Hallelujah chorus which is the end of Messiah. Rebbecca: It is the end of the Christmas part of the Messiah. �Carolyn: Exactly, and when people are only doing the Easter part they still do the Hallelujah chorus because of course that is the most popular piece from this work. Rebecca: Right. Carolyn: But the people from this- whether you are doing the Easter section or the Christmas section or the whole thing you end with the Hallelujah chorus and people generally stand up. But, it was kind of an accident in the first place. Rebecca: That’s a great story. Okay and the thing that I think is kind of interesting about the Messiah is it is one of the few choral pieces where the libretto [the words that go with the music] was originally in English. Carolyn: Right. Rebecca: I mean you look at the Brahms Requiem and that libretto is presumably in German? Carolyn: Right. Rebecca: And Verdi Requiem is in Italian, I assume and Carolyn: Right, but see Handel was in England. Rebecca: He is basically considered a British composer, I think. Carolyn: Yeah and so- so that’s why it was in English. Rebecca: Yeah, well cool. Carolyn: But of course he started over in Germany. Rebecca: Yeah, okay let’s see. We’ve gone over what instruments you play as a percussionist and you have described them. You have defined mallet percussion. We have clarified what you meant by classical music. Oh, you referred to ArtCore. Can you say a little more about ArtCore? What it is and what it does? �Carolyn: Sure- sure- we made up the name ArtCore from Art Coordinating Representatives. And so it was very strange when we went to get a web address. We tried to get just plain ‘Art Core’ and someone in England had gotten that name 17 years before that. So what we had to do was use ‘Artcorewy.com’ for our website because by adding the Wyoming part- and of course it’s worked out well because it lets people know where we are. But anyway, we made it up and someone else had it. So what we do is to present concerts for student and community audiences. For instance, when we had the ‘Fire Ants’ which is a group from Buffalo, Wyoming this spring they actually worked with the students at Kelly Walsh [high school in Casper, Wyo.] and worked with band, orchestra and choral students they all came together. Then the day of the concert we had a 12:45 session that students could bus in and homeschool families could come to. So, by having a general place they can come we can provide for all the schools. And then, they do a 45 minute program that incorporates part of their performance but also they talk about what inspired them to take up music and working hard enough to become professionals. Frequently the message that they give the children is, find something you are really good at and pursue it. It doesn’t matter if it’s music whatever it is but really make your best efforts to excel. Then they do standard evening concerts that are open to the public, and we have- not every artist does that but a majority of them do. For instance, for 22-23 our first concert is going to be Riders in the Sky which is very popular in this western town. And they do the western music like Roy Rogers and they’ll only do a concert so they don’t have outreach with theirs. Another one that we have is Urabe Mexicano. Casper has a Fiesta WYO on Labor Day Weekend on that Saturday and this is a group from the San Diego area, that’s a Mexican group, and it is a free concert to draw people in from the community. And so- because it is Labor Day Weekend we do not have school outreach with that because school is not in session. The other thing that would be of interest �maybe besides doing the concerts. We do a rotation of competitions. We have a new music competition that is for composers in Wyoming and they can write for up to eight performers up to twenty minutes and we help mount the concert the next year for the winner. That alternates with the one act play competition and official arts competition. And within our presenting series which is about forty to thirty-five shows a year we do championing of our local performers and state performers as well as bringing in Riders in the Sky, Tenors Unlimited from England so a wide variety. Every summer we do a music and poetry session so we include the written word by having a musician and a band and a writer for each of four week and the fifth week it is a musician and open mic for writers. And, I am the executive director of that group. Rebecca: Well, I have noticed that ArtCore does a very wide variety of things. They present a wide variety of types of music and artists which kind of characterizes ArtCore in my mind. Carolyn: And that is why it is interesting when we do surveys because we find that we have a lot of different audiences. We have people who will only come to the locals. You know they come to the Tremors and to the different ones with the local performers. And then we have the people who are really tied into dance, and we present dance every year. This next year we will have Soul Street Dance which are street dancers from Houston who are fabulous. We will have Rory Woodbury which is a modern company from Salt Lake and we will have Chicago tap Theater which includes live instrumentalists and tap dancers on stage for the concert. All of those will be doing a lot of outreach with master classes, school shows, and Soul Street even goes to the juvenile detention unit. Rebecca: Okay, that is all very enlightening. I didn't know that you guys did all that. Okay I want to jump back just quickly. You said Kelly Walsh, let’s just clarify, that is the high school on the east side of Casper. �Carolyn: Correct. Rebecca: Okay, well let’s see do you have anything to add and or- maybe I asked you this already I don’t have the question written down or crossed out. The high point of your time with the symphony. You have been playing with the symphony for- I did the math here, for more than 45 years, 46 years. Does any concert jump out at you as being the absolute most transcendent, fun, inspiring experience of your musical life? Carolyn: (laughter) Oh my, well it has been a joy to do all of them. I think the two that I told you about are probably the. You know the Visas for Life was very very special that we were able to do that and then it was a lot of fun to play in the musical- you know. I played violin in orchestra when I was in high school before my wrist wrecked up and so I had played in Camelot and Carnival and I am trying to think of what the other one was. But, 1776 is the only one I got to play percussion in and that was a lot of fun. Rebecca: Okay, is there anything else you would like us to know about your involvement with the Casper Symphony or the Wyoming Symphony? Or whatever various names it has had over the years. Carolyn: no just that it is tremendously exciting to get to be on stage and to be part of symphonic music. You know it is just- to be on the stage and be embroiled with the sweep of the sound you wish that the audience could be there with you. And it is much better now that NCHS, Natrona County High School, its stage has been redone because it has a lot better sound with the orchestra pulled out to the front. It used to be that the sound would go up into the catwalk and not go out into the people like you wish it would. So the sound is much better, but it is never the same as being in the middle of it. �Rebecca: It is interesting to hear you say that, describing what it is like to be in the middle of the sound. I know it is something I have always treasured about playing in an orchestra. So you are on the very periphery of the orchestra playing in the percussion section but you still have that experience of being immersed apparently. Carolyn: Yes, see I am lucky because they usually put me in front so I am very close to the harp and the piano and I often have similar parts. So I am very much in with that part of the orchestra. Jane Hammond and I are often side by side a lot of times and Kathy Williams on piano and then other-. You know, it is possible that the drum set might be beside me but a lot of times the snare players and gong and others like that are either beside me or in back of me. So I really do get to be part of the main part. Rebecca: Have you ever been called upon to play piano? As a percussionist in the symphony? Carolyn: Yes, there was a time when Betsy Taggart was actually the symphony pianist but she was doing a solo piece with us and so I got to cover the other parts she would have played if she were just playing the symphony. So that was fun. Rebecca: Well you have to have so many skills and know so many things to play percussion in an orchestra it seems to meCarolyn: (laughter) Rebecca: It’s not like me with the cello where all I have to do is hold the bow and move my fingers. You know that is a big job but it is only one instrument. And only one line of music, so. Carolyn: Sure, but but- what you are doing for the most part- I mean you may have a four part chord or something but generally what you are doing is reading the melody of a piano piece. Or say the left hand part if you are playing in some things if you are accompanying a woodwind instrument or something. The fact is, compared to what I read on piano or organ, the reading part �of it is very easy for me. Now, for everybody- just like I didn’t learn snare theoretically percussion people when they are coming up through school they learn all the different percussion instruments. They play cymbals, they play snare, they play bells and stuff. But I found a lot of times when the scores come to us that we use for a given concert. A bell part will have every note written in. So that says to me that it is someone that does not easily read and you know, sothe skill level of a mallet percussionist coming from piano and organ world is far greater than coming from the percussion world. And there was another fun concert in Laramie that was a celebration of- I think a concert of the opening of the Civic Center. Excuse me, I meant to say Cheyenne. It was in Cheyenne and they invited people from the different symphonies to come. So there were five of us in percussion that were going and the principal percussionist divided up parts. It was very scary for me because I was supposed to play a snare part, which I couldn’t do. But, instead of telling him I waited until I got there and then the group of percussionists were meeting and I said, ‘I don’t play this, I can’t do this.’ and somebody else said, ‘man I was really worried about a mallet part.’ So we switched and we were in great shape. Rebecca: (laughter) That is a great story. Carolyn: (laughter) And we got to play not only some separate literature but we got to play some pieces with Ballet Wyoming and that stage was big enough that they could have our symphonic group and then a screen that was projecting some images and then the dancers in front of that. So that was very cool. Rebecca: Okay, let’s back up you used the word snare. Can you define that a little better? Carolyn: Snare instrument is a drum that has some pieces of metal attached to the bottom and they can either be on or off. If they are on then it is the rattling sound you hear when people are doing any of the marches for military things or to accompany the Star Spangled Banner. Or it is �the general sound you hear with drums that are played with two sticks that just play evenly on the drum head. If you don’t have them then it just kind of thuds more like a standard drum but with the snares on it is the more rattly, higher pitched sound that everybody would know from marches and the anthem. Rebecca: Okay, let’s go back to the piano for a minute and clarify. The right hand is the hand that usually plays the tune and the left hand is- usually but not always- is that right? Carolyn: That’s right, there are pieces written to highlight your left hand or something you know but generally the right hand is more like the sopranos in a choir. It's doing the melody. Rebecca: Okay, and left hand is playing chords whether all together orCarolyn: Individual notes. Right. Rebecca: Now I want to go back to something you said about every note being written out. The implication being that if a person had a higher skill level they would just need chords indicated? Carolyn: No, it’s just a matter of- it’s just a matter of when I read piano or organ music like organ music I am reading two hands and feet. And on piano I might have all ten of my fingers busy. But generally with the mallet instruments you are playing a melody note that would be on the- it is just one note that you are reading at [a] time. So I am not reading full compositions where the piano is trying to be the full orchestra. Instead you are just reading one line. In a lot of the European scores they would write just one instrument’s notes. So just like what you have for cello. You have a single line right? Rebecca: Right. Carolyn: And that is what the mallet instruments would have for the most part. But if you look at piano music we may have four or five notes that we are playing at once. Rebecca: Right. �Carolyn: So it’s just that you have a single line that you are reading. Rebecca: Okay, I want to ask you about attitudes. You are a percussionist and I am wondering if either from your fellow musicians or from non-musicians if you have encountered a stereotype that percussionists are a little bit dim witted and that they don’t really need the same level of skill that a string player or something like that would need. Do you run into that attitude? Carolyn: I have not, the thing I have noticed about percussionists and I think we all realize is that there are a lot of people, especially people who are drummers, who are always their fingers are moving, they are always doing rhythms. You always figure they were doing that from the time they were little kids on their mom’s pots and pans in the kitchen. But when they are just sitting waiting between pieces, or something like that, they will have music going through their head and they will be doing rhythms. So I think of the drummers as kind of being engaged in and thinking about music all the time, and if I see someone doing that- out in public. I tend to think that they may be a drummer but I don’t- the only thing I have noticed is that people will kid us about being paid by the note. Rebecca: (laughter) Carolyn: Because of course we don’t have as many as the string people and so- I don’t know if you knew Leah Sprague but she played flute and then went to piccolo and she had rheumatoid arthritis and in the later years she couldn’t hold the flute. But anyway, when she was playing piccolo we did a piece and I had a triangle ding and then I had 82 measures [rest] and then I had another triangle ding and then I had a hundred and some measures and then I had another and that is what I had for the piece. I found out later, after the concert, that she was waiting for my second triangle ding to be her cue for an entrance and I said, ‘My gosh! What if I missed it?’ and she said, ‘Well you didn’t’ (laughter) you know but I could have! �Rebecca: [Inaudible] Carolyn: For sure, but so- then an example of what happened you know we just premiered a piece in March that was a suffragette piece for I am trying to remember the woman’s first name but her last name was Boyles. She did some traveling around Wyoming and she studied some history and then she did this work that we presented. I was told when we got the assignments that I didn’t have an assignment for that piece. Then it turned out that she had written the bass drum part that Ron Colter was playing so that it went immediately to a snare part and he didn’t have time to put down the bass drum mallet and pick up the snare sticks. So he let me know that they needed me for that section. The stage was crowded so if you see the recording of it you can just see my head in the back behind the bass drum because I was sitting beside the risers and right behind the bass drum. I was squishing in my shoulder as he was playing the bass drum and I was needed for exactly seven measures. But, it was loud bass drum playing fast notes and it couldn’t be covered any other way than to pull one person while the other did that… isn’t that insane. Rebecca: Mhmm, and the snare is played with wooden drum sticks. Is that right? Carolyn: That’s right, sometimes they have plastic tips but they are basically wood. Rebecca: Well, I have to tell you something that happened to me when I was at music camp at UW when I was in high school. We had a percussionist that was doing a demonstration or a performance for us or something and he asked us how many of us thought percussion didn’t take very much skill or that percussionists were second class musicians and so on. And a lot of us raised our hands. He is sitting up there with a trap set and I’m thinking maybe you should describe to the listener what is involved in a trap set. Carolyn: Okay, it has a bass drum that is controlled with your foot so you are hitting the beater on that by depressing a pedal with your foot. Then it has a snare drum like we have been talking �about that has the rattly sound and it often has a tom drum which has a non-rattle sound. That is just a general drum sound but it is higher than the bass drum that you hit with your foot and then it has cymbals. In this case the cymbals are a plate of metal that is on a stand and they are moveable; they are just hooked to the stand at one point. Then when you hit them with a drum stick they sizzle and they make a neat sound, but as opposed to the crash cymbals you would be hearing with the National Anthem and you hear snare and bass drum and cymbals all together. These are free standing so the person who is drumming the snare can lift his stick and hit the cymbal at any given beat. Frequently they will have two cymbals so you will have different sounds. So you are a one man band with being able to play the snare sound, the regular drum sounds and the cymbals. Rebecca: And the cymbals the way you are describing them, they ring until theyCarolyn: Until you stop them, that’s right. So what did this guy do with the trap set? Rebecca: Oh well he said; ‘Okay, do this with your foot’ and he showed us what he did with his foot. ‘Do this with your other foot’ and he showed us what he did with the other footCarolyn: Because you can do cymbals with your feet too. Rebecca: Yep, ‘Do this with your right hand and do this with your left hand’ and we very quickly discovered that was a lot harder than we thought it was. So kind of put us in our places. Carolyn: Excellent! And I was in a brass and percussion class at Greeley where we were learning a little bit about all the different instruments. So, we were trying out trap set and I was doing okay and the teacher was impressed until they told him I was an organ major. Rebecca: (laughter) Carolyn: At which point he said; ‘Well you should be able to have all your appendages work.’ Both: (laughter) �Rebecca: Well at least when you play organ you don’t have to play with your toes, just your two feet. Carolyn: You actually play toe and heel to play the black notes and the white notes Rebecca: Ah, so it’s basically the ball of the foot and the heel of the foot. Carolyn: Right so, we frequently wear tap shoes because they have got about an inch heel on them and that lets our ankle leverage to let us go toe-heel-toe-heel along the keys. So even our toes happen on the white keys, not just the black ones but you are basically walking along or dancing along the pedal board. Rebecca: Boy, playing an entire organ recital must require quite a lot of stamina in the legs. Carolyn: It does, it really does. You know it is funny I had a roommate at Iowa that was a theater major and we were not friends the first semester. Then she decided we should be friends, she was a very strange person but she could never understand why I would be tired after I had practiced organ for a couple hours. Until she finally went to an organ recital and then she got it. Rebecca: Yeah, I would imagine so. Carolyn: (laughter) Rebecca: Okay, is there anything else you want to tell us about involvement with the symphony. Carolyn: Um, no I just think that it’s a wonderful part of Casper that we have had such a history of music. Because they count- the City Band has played every year except the Covid year since 1888. The [Wyoming] Symphony when they count the years that we are playing, we are 70 years old from World War II. But there was a symphony that came before us but they quit for the war and they don’t count those years. So you know the people that we bring in from ArtCore are just totally amazed that we have the symphony and if they happen to be in town and they go to a symphony [concert] they are astounded by the quality of it. And they are amazed that we have �had amazing music teachers in the schools. And student ensembles [groups]. Another neat concert was when they included the string players with the symphony and we had 50 string players from the secondary schools that played in with the symphony for a couple pieces. But you know people don’t know what Casper is and then they come in and they find out what all is going on here and they are astounded. Rebecca: Yeah, that is not surprising. Okay well I really appreciate you giving your time today toCarolyn: Well I thank you forRebecca: Share your experience in the symphony. Carolyn: Well it is nice to be asked and it is very nice to visit with you and hear your stories. Rebecca: Okay, well thanks again and good luck with everything you are doing with ArtCore. Carolyn: Thank you very much good luck with this project and everything you are doing. Rebecca: Thank you Carolyn. Bye. Carolyn: Bye, Bye. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource WyoHistory.org Wyoming Symphony Orchestra Oral History Project Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC-NC/1.0/">http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC-NC/1.0/</a> Date Created Date of creation of the resource. 2022-2023 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource WyoHistory.org; Rebecca Hein Language A language of the resource ENG Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context NCA 01.i.2022.02 Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound; Text Description An account of the resource Audio files and transcripts created and edited by Rebecca Hein and students at Casper College during an oral history project with players of the Wyoming Symphony Orchestra. The oral histories were conducted by Hein between 2022 and 2023 and are a part of Wyohistory.org publishing project. Sound A resource primarily intended to be heard. Examples include a music playback file format, an audio compact disc, and recorded speech or sounds. Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data MP3 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Carolyn Deuel Wyoming Symphony Orchestra Oral History Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC-NC/1.0/">http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC-NC/1.0/</a> Date Created Date of creation of the resource. 2022-06-04 Description An account of the resource Audio file and transcript for oral history interview with Wyoming Symphony Orchestra player Carolyn Deuel. This interview was conducted by Rebecca Hein for Wyohistory.org on June 4, 2022. Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Becky Hein; Carolyn Deuel Language A language of the resource ENG Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. WyoHistory.org Wyoming Symphony Orchestra Oral History Project, NCA 01.i.2022.02 WyCaC US. Casper College Archives and Special Collections. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context NCA 01.i.2022.02_Carolyn_Deuel_6-4-22_Compressed Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource MP3